This question is for everyone, but it's especially directed at Christians.

Suppose that the Devil were more powerful than God (or, alternatively, that the Devil were the only existent Higher Power) and that you somehow knew this for a fact. Further suppose that this Devil threatens you with eternal torment after death if you refuse to worship and serve him by committing evil acts -- torturing old ladies, slaughtering children, etc. Would you serve the Devil to avoid hell? Or would you rather go to hell than commit such gruesome acts of evil? (Assume that your personality, conscience, and overall individual nature is exactly as it is right now for the purposes of this question -- i.e., the Devil didn't "make you any differently" than God.)

For what it's worth, my answer is "no" -- might and power alone do not make anyone worthy of worship or even respect.

Well now first, if the Devil is more powerful then God, wouldn't that upgrade the Devil to the [b]status[/] of God?? In other words in such a scenario, in my mind, the Devil would be God, and God would just be some subordinate angelic being or something.

Or would you rather go to hell than commit such gruesome acts of evil?

After receiving such a horrible question from this supernatural being of evil (I am assuming it would communicate this demonic scenario to me personally) I would be tempted to commit suicide so that I would not even be tempted to try and hurt old ladies and children. Bear in mind that if the Devil is more powerful then even God (in this scenario) there would be nothing I could do to fight it.

It will be interesting to see Petrs response, perhaps he will get to this after he is done composing responses to other threads that deal with Dinosaur fossils and pre-Adamites... (it may be a very long wait... hehe)

If devil were all-powerful, we weren't Christians but Gnostic Manicheans.

God is not only Allmighty - He is also the Creator of this world, and has the copyright over it.

"Potter's freedom," you know.

Only Gnosticism teaches that this world of ours has been created by a malignant devil-god.

I've heard that some satanists teach that Satan is going to win the war against God, and then Christians are going to be sent to Hell.


Petr

Kinda a dumb hypothetical but "eternity" is a long time, if I were sure a certain being were omnipotent and was making such a threat I would prettymuch do anything he says...

Petr is correct that gnostics believe this world was created by a demiurge but not correct about this

I've heard that some satanists teach that Satan is going to win the war against God, and then Christians are going to be sent to Hell.

From what ive heard about all so called "satanists" today they deny the existence of any supernatural beings, and certainly divine ones. They use God and Satan as metaphors.

- "From what ive heard about all so called "satanists" today they deny the existence of any supernatural beings, and certainly divine ones. They use God and Satan as metaphors."


We could make an encyclopedia out of everything that "you have not heard about".

Satanists come in all colors, and those whom you know are just hobbyists.

(And surely you know that devil's most cunning trick was to convince people into thinking that he did not exist...esoteric/exoteric teaching and so on.)


Petr

We could make an encyclopedia out of everything that "you have not heard about".

What I know is finite, what I don't know is infinite. The same applies to you.

Satanists come in all colors, and those whom you know are just hobbyists.


I do not know any open satanists( I knew one ex satanists who was mentally disturbed and was a devout catholic lol). But everything ive read on the "Church of Satan" indicates they are actually athiestic.

Im sure there are a few isolated mentally ill serial killers and such who actually worship satan, most of them are probably in prison.

And surely you know that devil's most cunning trick was to convince people into thinking that he did not exist

Yeah I think that was a line in The Usual Suspects. Don't let anyone try to convince you Keyser Soze doesn't exist.

If devil were all-powerful, we weren't Christians but Gnostic Manicheans.That's right -- you would not be Christians. But that doesn't change the hypothetical situation I've proposed.


God is not only Allmighty - He is also the Creator of this world, and has the copyright over it.

"Potter's freedom," you know.I happen to think that might does not make right. Again: If the Devil were the creator of the universe and there was no god but him, would you say the same thing -- that he has a right to do whatever he wishes with his creation? Why or why not?

I say that causing any being to suffer needlessly is wrong, regardless of whether I or anyone else created that being. And if I'm wrong about that, then the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil must have been defective, no? Doesn't the Bible teach that men know right from wrong in their hearts? Well, my heart tells me that it's wrong to make any living thing suffer needlessly -- period. If that makes me "evil," then so be it.


Only Gnosticism teaches that this world of ours has been created by a malignant devil-god.Okay, but that is not really relevant to the question. In no way am I suggesting that my hypothetical scenario is reflective of reality (although of course it could be).


I've heard that some satanists teach that Satan is going to win the war against God, and then Christians are going to be sent to Hell.
Otto is correct in his assessment of the majority of Satanists. Most are actually atheists who subscribe to a particular philosophy that they feel is best represented by the mythological enemy of God.

If God and Satan existed according to the traditional Christian point of view, then only a fool would think that Satan could win against God. In fact, only a fool would think that any battle could take place between Satan and God, since God could simply make Satan and all the fallen angels cease to exist (or transfer them to hell) without the tiniest bit of effort. When the Bible says that Lucifer thought he would "be like the Most High," it is ascribing extreme (and totally implausible) stupidity to Lucifer. Are we supposed to believe that one of God's highest angels -- presumably someone with a great deal of intelligence and wisdom -- actually thought he could beat an omnipotent God in a fight? LOL! How anyone can believe that stuff is way beyond my comprehension.

- "If the Devil were the creator of the universe and there was no god but him, ..."

... then he would not be devil at all. Pointless hypothesis.

(The very meaning of the Hebrew word "satan" is "adversary", an opponent of God. All creatures, men or angels, who oppose God are therefore "satans")


- "I happen to think that might does not make right."

It's more subtle than that. The Creator of this world is not only more powerful than us, He also has a legitimate claim to expect our respect and loyalty after having created us in His image, as His children.

This universe by necessity on the somehow lower level than its creator - if this world would have been absolutely perfect in every regard, it would have been Divine itself - and the consistent theme of the Bible is the difference between the Creator and creation.

(CS Lewis once wrote that if God had not decided to create the world, pantheism would have been the true doctrine - before creation, ALL was God...)

We were not created to be gods, and that's the idea we better get used to. We are servants by our very nature.

We obnoxiously "disrespected" our Heavenly Father when we tried to rise into godhood and achieve some sort of autonomy from God by eating that forbidden fruit - we got "uppity."


"Saul Alinsky wrote two books outlining his organizational principles and strategies: Reveille for Radicals (1946) and Rules for Radicals (1971).

"Rules for Radicals opens with a quote about Lucifer, written by Saul Alinsky: “Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins -- or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38dab5413f8a.htm


Satan has not created us (or himself), and therefore has no legitimate claim for sovereignty. For some reason beyond our knowledge, he also rose against his rightful Creator and master, and is now trying to spread his poisonous, anarchistic, self-destructive discontent all over the universe.



- "When the Bible says that Lucifer thought he would "be like the Most High," it is ascribing extreme (and totally implausible) stupidity to Lucifer. Are we supposed to believe that one of God's highest angels -- presumably someone with a great deal of intelligence and wisdom -- actually thought he could beat an omnipotent God in a fight? LOL!"

There are absolutely no limits to the arrogant self-delusions of those who rebel against their Lord and Creator.

Intelligence does by no means equal wisdom. Some of the greatest dunces ever have been first-class rationalists.

G.K. Chesterton's theories about the close correlation between extreme rationalism and insanity are quite interesting:

http://www.classicsnetwork.com/etexts/322/1954/


Yes, it is extreme stupidity, and God is LAUGHING at the puny mortals who think they can threaten Him:


Psalms 2 King James Version

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.


Men are supposed "to kiss the Son," to show Divine respect for Jesus Christ, to whom God the Father has delegated judgmental powers in this world.


- "How anyone can believe that stuff is way beyond my comprehension."

You are only showing your own naivete, and by thinking you can "defeat" God's word with your own reasonings, you are indirectly succumbing to the very same luciferian mentality.


Petr

Petr, were the animals originally all vegetarian?

- "Petr, were the animals originally all vegetarian?"

I'm not absolutely sure, and don't try to hijack this thread.


Petr

You DO think it possible that the animals became evil then. :D

- "If the Devil were the creator of the universe and there was no god but him, ..."

... then he would not be devil at all. Pointless hypothesis.

(The very meaning of the Hebrew word "satan" is "adversary", an opponent of God. All creatures, men or angels, who oppose God are therefore "satans")Maybe he wouldn't be called the Devil, but I'm assuming his nature would be the same. Try to think outside the dogmatic box, Petr.


- "I happen to think that might does not make right."

It's more subtle than that. The Creator of this world is not only more powerful than us, He also has a legitimate claim to expect our respect and loyalty after having created us in His image, as His children.

This universe by necessity on the somehow lower level than its creator - if this world would have been absolutely perfect in every regard, it would have been Divine itself - and the consistent theme of the Bible is the difference between the Creator and creation.

(CS Lewis once wrote that if God had not decided to create the world, pantheism would have been the true doctrine - before creation, ALL was God...)

We were not created to be gods, and that's the idea we better get used to. We are servants by our very nature.Never having met God, I have no way of knowing that he even exists. How can I then be loyal to him?


We obnoxiously "disrespected" our Heavenly Father when we tried to rise into godhood and achieve some sort of autonomy from God by eating that forbidden fruit - we got "uppity."I have no recollection of having done any such thing.


Satan has not created us (or himself), and therefore has no legitimate claim for sovereignty. For some reason beyond our knowledge, he also rose against his rightful Creator and master, and is now trying to spread his poisonous, anarchistic, self-destructive discontent all over the universe.How do you know Satan exists? A book proves nothing. In fact, the Hebraic concept of Satan evolved over the years. Initially Satan was thought of as one of God's servants (as if an omnipotent God even needs servants).



- "When the Bible says that Lucifer thought he would "be like the Most High," it is ascribing extreme (and totally implausible) stupidity to Lucifer. Are we supposed to believe that one of God's highest angels -- presumably someone with a great deal of intelligence and wisdom -- actually thought he could beat an omnipotent God in a fight? LOL!"

There are absolutely no limits to the arrogant self-delusions of those who rebel against their Lord and Creator.If Satan was delusional, then whose fault was that? I'd say it's the fault of the one who created him. Who else?


G.K. Chesterton's theories about the close correlation between extreme rationalism and insanity are quite interesting:

http://www.classicsnetwork.com/etexts/322/1954/If there is such a correlation, then that is by God's design. If Satan's great intelligence was linked to insanity, then that's God's fault. Furthermore, insanity is a defense against moral responsibility.


Yes, it is extreme stupidity, and God is LAUGHING at the puny mortals who think they can threaten Him:

Psalms 2 King James Version

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision. No one who believes in God thinks he can threaten God. And the idea of an anthropomorphic God who laughs at anything is silly. Laughing is a human response to unexpected incongruity or other sensory/psychological input. Since God is hypothesized to be omniscient, nothing can be unexpected from his point of view.


5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.


Men are supposed "to kiss the Son," to show Divine respect for Jesus Christ, to whom God the Father has delegated judgmental powers in this world.This is what the Bible says. Where is your evidence that it reflects reality? You have none.


- "How anyone can believe that stuff is way beyond my comprehension."

You are only showing your own naivete, and by thinking you can "defeat" God's word with your own reasonings, you are indirectly succumbing to the very same luciferian mentality.I'm not attempting to defeat God with my reasoning; I'm defeating those who claim to speak for God by my own reasoning. If God ever talks to me directly, then I will listen and obey. Everything else receives the same skepticism from me as any other human work. The only naivete is on the part of those who accept any work of human hands as "God's Word."

I repeat: Questioning the Bible, Christianity, or any religion is NOT questioning God; it's questioning other men who CLAIM to speak for God. The sooner you understand this simple truth, the better.

Your whole post is nothing but usual whining.


- "I have no recollection of having done any such thing."

Many criminals sincerely do not remember committing the things they are accused of. Besides, you have inherited the guilt from your ancestors.


- "If there is such a correlation, then that is by God's design. If Satan's great intelligence was linked to insanity, then that's God's fault. Furthermore, insanity is a defense against moral responsibility."

Here we go again, you think you can reason better God with your modernistic humanistic legal concepts and niceties.

Also present is luciferian-Gnostic tendency to blame God the Creator rather than one's own twisted will and quest for autonomy for evil.

Already in the Garden, men were unwilling to take a full responsibility for their Fall - when questioned, Adam blamed Eve (and indirectly God Himself), Eve blamed the Serpent, and God convicted all three of them.


- "No one who believes in God thinks he can threaten God."

Ignorant nonsense. Fallen men are crazy in their pride and hatred of God, and many many, pantheistic mystics have declared that they are more powerful than God.


"The clergy who observed the heretics had no doubts on the matter. These men and women, they complained, set themselves above the saints, the angels, the Virgin and even Christ Himself. 'They say they are God by nature, without any distinction,' commented the Bishop of Strasbourg, 'they believe that all divine perfections are in them, that they are eternal and in eternity.'"

"The women of Schweidnitz claimed that their souls had by their own efforts attained a perfection greater than they had possessed when they first emanated from God, and greater than God ever intended them to possess. They claimed to have such command over the Holy Trinity that they could 'ride it as in a saddle'. The Swabian heretics Of 1270 said that they had mounted up above God and, reaching the very pinnacle of Iivinity, abandoned God."

http://www.dhushara.com/book/consum/free.htm

"I am the captain of my fate, I am the master of my soul,..."

The same mentality.



- "And the idea of an anthropomorphic God who laughs at anything is silly."

You are a prisoner of your deistic delusions and prejudices. Is it a sign of petty closed-mindedness to be afraid of all "antropomorphisms." God communicates with us a way that we can understand and appreciate.

(If He would make His point in a more sublime manner, you could whine about how you cannot comprehend what God is saying. It is impossible for God to please fallen sinners.)


- "If God ever talks to me directly, then I will listen and obey. Everything else receives the same skepticism from me as any other human work."

In the judgment day, God may ask you why you did not obey His voice. You may answer that you thought you were so important that God Allmighty Himself should have contacted you personally instead of sending messengers. God will send you to Hell for your arrogance, and for refusal to recognize the Divine message when you saw or heard one.

Jesus Christ's parable about the vineyard deals with this refusal of fallen men to respect God's messengers:

Luke 20:9-19

[9] He went on to tell the people this parable: "A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. [10] At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. [11] He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. [12] He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.

[13] "Then the owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.'

[14] "But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. 'This is the heir,' they said. 'Let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' [15] So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

"What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? [16] He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others."


Petr

We were not created to be gods, and that's the idea we better get used to. We are servants by our very nature.

Then why were we given free will?

- "Then why were we given free will?"


It's a LOONG story, and has been a subject to endless debates. I am not going to deal with it right now just to satisfy your fleeting curiosity, you can found about the basic arguments yourself.

What the Bible DOES teach is that man has no right to inquire in a hostile manner why he was created in the first place.


Petr

Besides, you have inherited the guilt from your ancestors.

A monstrous doctrine.

Any 'God' that would punish the descendents of criminals is unworthy of my allegiance.

- "Any 'God' that would punish the descendents of criminals is unworthy of my allegiance."


You (and I!) have inherited the fallen, rebellious nature from our forefathers.

And I wouldn't use such a self-conscious word as "allegiance". "Obedience" would be better.

And really, why should a confirmed racist be so shocked about the doctrine of Original Sin, that our rotten nature is in our genes? Just because your own ox has been gored?


Petr

Satan rules the earth, runs a law firm in NYC, and walks around boning whichever chick he likes while God plays 'absentee landlord.'

Satan rules the earth, runs a law firm in NYC, and walks around boning whichever chick he likes while God plays 'absentee landlord.'If Satan took a job on earth, he'd definitely be a lawyer.

Your whole post is nothing but usual whining.LOL, WTF are you talking about? My attitude in writing these things is one of amusement at your simple-mindedness. There is not one word of whining in any of my posts.


"I have no recollection of having done any such thing."

Many criminals sincerely do not remember committing the things they are accused of.Irrelevant -- unless you think I ate from the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden and somehow forgot about it.


Besides, you have inherited the guilt from your ancestors.Guilt CANNOT be inherited. It is axiomatic that a person's crimes are his and his alone. Anything else is injustice -- injustice of a very Jewish character, I might add.


What the Bible DOES teach is that man has no right to inquire in a hostile manner why he was created in the first place.You are arguing from the assumption that God had a hand in the Bible, yet you have NO supporting evidence. Because it is completely uncertain, highly unlikely, and probably impossible that the Bible is, in fact, the "infallible word of God," I will question it as I see fit, whether someone thinks I have the "right" to or not. Only a fool puts unqualified trust in a book written by other men.

It's a good thing the Bible doesn't tell us to worship Jews, Petr. If it did, you'd be doing so this very day, since you have proven yourself incapable of thinking for yourself. It's much easier to let the Bible do all the thinking for you and pretend to have all the answers on that basis, isn't it?

- "Guilt CANNOT be inherited. It is axiomatic that a person's crimes are his and his alone."

Let us compare it (in a one sense) to a biological contamination. The Fall was like a HUGE (self-inflicted) Chernobyl, and our forefathers suffered a horrendous mutation, which we have inherited.

Fallen men carry opposition to true God in their genes, and only the Holy Spirit can serve as the antidote.


- "If it did, you'd be doing so this very day, since you have proven yourself incapable of thinking for yourself."

Nonsense. I was raised by non-believing parents, and went during my late teen years through a great, great period of doubt whether you could really trust in the veracity of the Holy Bible.


- "It's much easier to let the Bible do all the thinking for you and pretend to have all the answers on that basis, isn't it?"

Puny "freethinking" elitism. YOUR thinking is utterly stereotypical, and you cannot seem to realize why many, many very intelligent people sincerely believe in the consistency and reliability of the Bible.


Petr

and you cannot seem to realize why many, many very intelligent people sincerely believe in the Bible.


I never believed in the bible, but a god that was love. It makes me wonder as to your motivations.

- "Guilt CANNOT be inherited. It is axiomatic that a person's crimes are his and his alone."

Let us compare it (in a one sense) to a biological contamination. The Fall was like a HUGE (self-inflicted) Chernobyl, and our forefathers suffered a horrendous mutation, which we have inherited.

Fallen men carry opposition to true God in their genes, and only the Holy Spirit can serve as the antidote.Sorry, doesn't wash. If a person hasn't committed a certain deed deliberately, then he can't be responsible for it. This is axiomatic.


- "If it did, you'd be doing so this very day, since you have proven yourself incapable of thinking for yourself."

Nonsense. I was raised by non-believing parents, and went during my late teen years through a great, great period of doubt whether you could really trust in the veracity of the Holy Bible.And yet you doubt no longer. That means you've shut off your brain in that regard. Put another way, you've been brainwashed.


- "It's much easier to let the Bible do all the thinking for you and pretend to have all the answers on that basis, isn't it?"

Puny "freethinking" elitism. YOUR thinking is utterly stereotypical, and you cannot seem to realize why many, many very intelligent people sincerely believe in the consistency and reliability of the Bible.There's nothing "puny" about freethought. And while I agree that many intelligent people are Christians (AND Muslims, AND Hindus, AND Buddhists), that does not make them correct. Perhaps they are simply adept at self-delusion. Remember the Heaven's Gate UFO cult? They were said to be quite intelligent. Many had fairly sophisticated jobs as network engineers or computer programmers. But that didn't stop them from being just plain wrong.

I do dispute that there are many intelligent fundamentalists of any religion. Fundamentalism is antithetical to rational thought. For example, the Bible says that God created a "firmament" that separates the "waters above the earth" from the waters beneath. No intelligent person believes that a firmament over the earth ever existed. It's like believing in flying donkeys -- purely delusional. It's either stupid or insane. Take your pick.

- "Fundamentalism is antithetical to rational thought."


Define "rational thought". "Freethinkers" are just anti-God fundamentalists.


Petr

- "Fundamentalism is antithetical to rational thought."

Define "rational thought".Here's an off-the-cuff definition: The mental process of arriving at certain or tentative conclusions, estimating probabilities, or calculating quantities through reasoning from what has already been firmly established by empirical observation in combination with prior reasoning based on the axioms of logic.


"Freethinkers" are just anti-God fundamentalists.This is absolutely false. A freethinker is defined as someone who forms opinions on the basis of reason and evidence, not just on account of anyone's claimed authority. If there were convincing evidence that the Bible were true -- or any solid evidence at all, for that matter -- then freethinkers would believe in the Bible. They'd have to, even if they chose to lie about it. But there is no such evidence; rather, the evidence all points to the Bible being reality-challenged -- firmaments, worldwide floods, arks containing all the living creatures, witches, demons, etc., etc.

Here are some words from one of your intellectual forebears, Petr:

It has indeed lately come to Our ears, not without afflicting Us with bitter sorrow, that in some parts of Northern Germany, as well as in the provinces, townships, territories, districts, and dioceses of Mainz, Cologne, Tréves, Salzburg, and Bremen, many persons of both sexes, unmindful of their own salvation and straying from the Catholic Faith, have abandoned themselves to devils, incubi and succubi, and by their incantations, spells, conjurations, and other accursed charms and crafts, enormities and horrid offences, have slain infants yet in the mother's womb, as also the offspring of cattle, have blasted the produce of the earth, the grapes of the vine, the fruits of the trees, nay, men and women, beasts of burthen, herd-beasts, as well as animals of other kinds, vineyards, orchards, meadows, pasture-land, corn, wheat, and all other cereals; these wretches furthermore afflict and torment men and women, beasts of burthen, herd-beasts, as well as animals of other kinds, with terrible and piteous pains and sore diseases, both internal and external; they hinder men from performing the sexual act and women from conceiving, whence husbands cannot know their wives nor wives receive their husbands; over and above this, they blasphemously renounce that Faith which is theirs by the Sacrament of Baptism, and at the instigation of the Enemy of Mankind they do not shrink from committing and perpetrating the foulest abominations and filthiest excesses to the deadly peril of their own souls, whereby they outrage the Divine Majesty and are a cause of scandal and danger to very many.From The Bull of Innocent VIII ("Bull" is right....).
http://www.malleusmaleficarum.org/mm00e.html


The writer of the document linked above was obviously literate and was probably educated to a high standard of his time; however, he was a fool. Why? Because he relied on authority (including the Bible) rather than on careful reasoning to establish his conclusion that witches existed. Of course he was wrong; witchcraft has been attempted by many, but of course it does not work. There is zero power in witchcraft, since there is no Devil to sell one's soul to.

And really, why should a confirmed racist be so shocked about the doctrine of Original Sin, that our rotten nature is in our genes? Just because your own ox has been gored?

Original Sin is an egalitarian doctrine, "Everyone is born in sin" say many Christlings. Theological egalitarianism of this sort is the antithesis of racist hierarchists such as myself

- "Original Sin is an egalitarian doctrine"


Yup, approximately in the same manner as death, the consequence of the Original Sin, is the "great equalizer."


Petr

But I thought you had posted that death does not exist, and that unbelievers go to hell for eternity and the portion of Revelation that speaks of the worm or whatever is your biblical evidence that the doctrine of anhiliationsim (sp?) is false.

What is with this contradiction??

(For the record I do not believe in any sort of afterlife, decomposition awaits.)

I meant that just like all men are contaminated by Original Sin (think of it as a sort of metaphysical radioactive exposure), so does death come to all.

And I have no recollection whatsoever of stating that death does not exist - the Bible speaks of Hell as the "second death"...


Petr