In making a final assessment of Hitler's war aims, it is important to bear in mind that the Nazi dictator was never an entirely free agent, that his aims were constantly affected by changes in Germany's political and military situation, and that his ambition expanded as new opportunities opened before him. Thus, although he professed not to be interested in the acquistion of overseas colonies, he did not hesitate to lay claim to an immense colonial empire in Central Africa when it seemed likely that he would soon be able to acquire one. As Hitler never controlled this part of Africa, or the majority of other overseas territories coveted by German colonial enthusiasts, the ultimate extent of his colonial ambitions must remain a matter of speculation.

It was different with Europe, where Hitler's actual policies, viewed in conjunction with his policy statements, guidelines, and directives, give a very clear indication of his intentions. These policies demonstrate beyond all doubt that through all the vicissitudes of his career Hitler adhered with fanatic consistency to the two central objectives of his ideological program: the purification of the Germanic race through the removal of all non-Aryan racial elements; and the conquest of Lebensraum in Eastern Europe to ensure the security of the Germanic race for all time.

The entire business of racial purification was of course an anthropological absurdity, and the Nazi effort to put this program into effect was at all times a bizarre and thoroughly subjective procedure which could be dismissed as a farce had it not provided the rationale for the cold-blooded murder of millions of human beings. Yet, because of the inevitable vagueness of Nazi definitions of race and the broad interpretations Nazi leaders frequently allowed themselves in selecting persons suitable for Germanisation, it is impossible to estimate with any precision how large a propotion of the subject population would have been selected for Germanisation and how many would have been expelled or exterminated. Apart from those groups which were to be removed entirely (Jews, gypsies, politically dangerous, and "asocial" persons), it would appear that the survival of members of the subject populations would have depended very largely on local conditions and on the judgment of local officials in charge of racial operations.

Hitler's policies give a far more precise indication of his territorial objectives in Europe, although here too his future plans for several important areas remained vague. Summarised in terms of regions, Hitler's Germanic empire would have included:

In the north: Denmark, Norway, and almost certainly Sweden, with Finland as an ally to guard Germany's flank in the northeast.

In the west: the Low Countries, Alsace, Lorraine, and Luxembourg, together with a broad strip of territory from the mouth of the Somme to Lake Geneva, fortificatons along the French Channel coast, and the British Channel islands.

In the south: Austria, Switzerland (almost certainly), and northwestern Yugoslavia; and, after the Italian surrender, all Italian territory north of the Po, as well as a broad strip of territory along the Adriatic littoral.

In the east: Memelland, Danzig, all of Poland, the Sudetenland, and the Czech provinces of Bohemia and Moravia; the Baltic states, White Russia, and the Ukraine, with territorial claims to be staked out to the Urals and beyond.

In the regions of Central and Southern Europe there would have been a block of allied states from Slovakia to Greece, where Germany would have made every provision to safeguard its strategic and economic interests. The future of Serbia remained indefinite. It might have been turned over to the Croatians, but more probably it would have been left under some form of German administration to ensure German dominion in the Danube area. Germany's flank in Southeastern Europe was to be guarded by another ally, Turkey.

Until the Italian surrender in September 1943, the task of safeguarding Axis interests in the south had been assigned to Italy, which was conceded supremacy over the Mediterranean region, including the greater part of North Africa, the Adriatic littoral, and the Arab Near East. After the Italian surrender, a large part of Northern Italy was scheduled for annexation to the Reich, while the Italy left under Mussolini's Italian Fascist government was relegated to the role of satellite ally. What was to become of rump Italy in the future was uncertain.

Also uncertain was the future fate of rump France, as well as those countries which did not fall under direct German dominion in the course of the Second World War: Spain, Portugal, Britain and Ireland.

It may be assume, however, that if Hitler had won the war all these countries would have been brought into the German power orbit, whether as satellites, allies, or integral parts of the Germanic empire.

Germany, however, did not win the war, and by 1945 Hitler's dream of empire, and with it Germany and a great part of Europe, lay in ruins. After the First World War the great powers of Europe, though weakened in terms of manpower and resources, had remained world powers. Aided by the withdrawal of the United States and the Soviet Union into isolationism, they had continued to make many of the major policy decisions affecting the world at large. It was Hitler's war which brought an end to the age of European global primacy, which placed a great part of Central and Eastern Europe under Soviet dominion, and which left the states of Western Europe perilously lodged between the millstones of Russian/Asiatic power in the east and American power in the West."

Rich, p.422

"If Germany had won the Second World War, neither Italy nor Turkey, nor any state in the Near or Middle East could have withstood Germany pressure, and the extension of German influence in Asia would have halted only at the boundries of the Japanese sphere of interest. Where these boundries would be drawn was never determined, but if negotiations on this question had ever taken place it is possible that they would have been based on the German-Japanese military agreement of December 1941, which provided for the division of the world into spheres of military operation along the seventieth degree of longitude, an agreement which left Germany and Italy responsible for the territory west of that line, Japan for the territory to the east. This would have meant that Siberia, China, India, and the greater part of Pakistan would have fallen to the Japanese, while the Arab countries, with Africa, Afghanistan, would have gone to the Axis. There is the further possibility that this agreement would have been modified to leave Afghanistan to the Japanese in exchange for an extension of the German sphere of influence in Russia, as the economic office of the OKW had recommended when the December agreement was under negotiation.

Hitler himself speculated on this problem in January of 1941. "Where, in fact, is the frontier between East and West to be laid down?" he asked after the Japanese captured Singapore. To this question he could provide no consistent or satisfactory answer. As the Japanese overran one European territory after another in East Asia, he believed they would conquer Australia too and that the white race would disappear altogether from these regions. For Hitler this representated a turning point in history. "It means the loss of a whole continent, and one might regret it, for it's the white race which is the loser." It was nevertheless an immense relief to him that the Japanese had entered the war, for Japan was the only first-class military power on Germany's side and one on which he was certain he could rely. After the war, too, Hitler believed it would be in Germany's interest if Japan retained the preponderant position it was gaining in the Pacific, for Japan was Germany's chief safeguard against the United States. He could feel no affinity with the Japanese, Hitler said, for their way of life and culture were entirely too foreign, but he felt real hatred and repugnance for the Americans.

Some weeks later Hitler again spoke of the desirability for Germany of preserving its alliance with Japan. When the time came for making peace, he did not think the Japanese would create any serious difficulties if they were given all of Asia. He doubted whether they were capable of digesting India and he now wondered whether they would in fact be interested in taking over Australia and New Zealand. As a result of their alliance with Germany, they would feel a great sense of security and would have no further reason to fear anyone. But for Germany, too, this alliance would be an essential guarantee of tranquility. "There's one thing Japan and Germany have in common," Hitler said. "That both of us need fifty to a hundred years for purposes of digestion: we for Russia, they for the Far East."

Although Hitler was not certain whether Japan would seize Australia and New Zealand, it is obvious that he was prepared to concede these territories, like the rest of East Asia, to the Japanese sphere of interest. If the Japanese had indeed conquered Australia and New Zealand -- and they almost certainly would have attempted to do so, if only for reasons of security -- it may be assumed that Hitler would have offered the Anglo-Saxon inhabitants of these countries sanctuary in his Germanic Reich and would have attempted to recruit them as colonists in the newly won territories of the east. When Germanic settlement had reached the boundries of the Japanese Empire in East Asia, the descendants of these Australians and New Zealanders would have the opportuniy to take their revenge on Japan. But such possibilities lay many decades, perhaps centuries, in the future."

Norman Rich, Hitler's War Aims: The Establishment of the New Order (New York: W.W. Norton & Company, Inc., 1974), p.415-416

Some more interesting passages from the Goebbels' Diaries:

January 22, 1942

"I saw the new American propaganda movie, The Foreign Correspondent. It is a first-class production, a criminological bang-up hit, which no doubt will make a certain impression upon the broad masses of the people in enemy countries. Significantly enough this film, with its absolutely anti-German tendency, was allowed to run for months in Sweden. The Swedes and the Swiss are playing with fire. Let us hope they will burn their fingers before this war is over."

May 8, 1943

"In this connection the Fuhrer defended the policies of Charlemagne. His methods, too, had been right. It is entirely wrong to attack him as the "Butcher of the Saxons." Who will guarantee to the Fuhrer that at some later time he will not be attacked as the "Butcher of the Swiss"? Austria, after all, also had to be forced into the Reich. We can be happy that it happened in such a peaceful and enthusiastic manner; but if Schusschnigg had offered resistance, it would have been necessary, of course, to overcome resistance by force."

April 15, 1942

"The English intended establishing a connection with the eastern theater of war via Sweden. But the Swedes are determined to oppose by force of arms anybody who attacks their territory. At least that is what they say today. It would have been better if we had also taken Sweden during our campaign in the north. This state has no right to national existence anyway."


Aoril 26, 1942

"The Swedes sent us an exceedingly insolent reply to our last note. They claim the statements in our note are not true. They surprise us with the assertion that they found anchored German mines in Swedish waters. The tone of the note is exceptionally arrogant, and the commentaries which appeared in the Swedish press about it outdo each other in insolence. This shows that our military situation has become somewhat unstable. Two years ago the Swedes would not have dared to come to us with such a document. But this is not yet the end. Scores we can't settle with the Swedes today can be settled tommorrow."

April 21, 1943

"An incident embarrassing to us occured when a German merchant ship fired on a Swedish submarine. The Swedes are blowing their tops about it. The Swedish press, especially the section hostile to the Axis, is indulging in language that it dares to use only because our military position is not very secure at the moment. But one day there will be a change -- and then we can talk differently to the Swedes."


[Editor's Note: In the second place, this Goebbels entry reveals that Hitler would in the event of victory have compelled Switzerland to become a part of Germany even though he might have to butcher the element there which was quite as violently opposed to German domination as were the French and Italian elements.]

On the Belgians:

"Whatever doubts Hitler and his principal collaborators may have had about the future status of the Belgians in the Nazi New Order when Germany first occupied the country were completely resolved by 1942. The Nazis had always recognised the Flemish as a Germanic people. Once Hitler had decided that the Walloons were Germanic as well, there was no longer any question as to what was to be done with Belgium: The country was to be annexed to the Reich and was to be divided into two new Reichsgaus, Flanders and Brabant. From these lands all undesirable political and racial elements were to be removed, in accordance with procedures already adopted in other parts of the Greater German Reich.

As in the case of Denmark and Norway, not a great deal had been accomplished in the course of the Nazi occupation to integrate Belgium into the Reich politically and culturally, and German attempts at economic integration had fallen far short of expectations. But in Belgium too, the stubborn resistance of the population to the Nazi Germanization campaign had little effect on Hitler's plans. Here as well he was confident that in the course of time the Flemish and the Walloons, like all other Germanic peoples, would learn to have pride in their Germanic blood and racial heritage, and become stalwart supporters of the Greater Germanic Union.

Territorially the one question that remained to be decided was the fate of the two French departments which the Germans had attached to Belgium for administrative purposes. Even here, however, there ca nbe little doubt about what their future status would have been. Unless the Nazis had found a compelling reason to restore them to France in return for a French military alliance or some similar advantage, it seems probably that these departments, which the Flemish regarded as French Flanders, would have been made part of the Reichsgau Flandern, and, with Belgian Flanders, would have been incorporated into the Germanic Reich."

Rich, p.196

On the Danes and Norwegians:

"After approximately five years of rule over Denmark and Norway, the Nazis had been notably unsuccessful in promoting their ideal of Germanic brotherhood, much less that of a Greater Germanic union. The original aim of Cecil von Renthe-Fink to establish the closest possible political, military, economic, and cultural ties between Denmark and the Reich had been frustrated by the procrastination and ultimately by the outright resistance of the Danes; the Norwegians had shown themselves equally recalcitrant. Neither Frits Clausen in Denmark nor Vidkun Quisling in Norway had managed to build native Nazi parties into political organizations of any size or prestige. On the contrary, these leaders and their adherents were held in general contempt and despised as traitors. The Nazis were even less successful in advancing their cause through German agencies; long before the end of the war even the most sanguine Nazi enthusiasts were compelled to acknowledge that in these Nordic states their Germanic program had been a sorry failure.

Nazi failures in Denmark and Norway, however, do not appear to have had any effect whatevr on Hitler's aims in these countries, or on this conception of the role these Germanic peoples should play in the New Order. Hitler regarded the situation of the Danes and Norwegians as comparable to that of the Bavarians before 1871 and the Austrian before 1938, and he remained convinced that in time they could be won over to the Germanic idea and coverted into enthusiastic members of the Germanic community. Although he might order that all unrest and opposition in Denmark and Norway be suppressed with ruthless severity, at no time did he or his henchmen suggest that the Danish or Norwegian people should be destroyed. He did propose to send many of them to Eastern Europe, to be sure, but not for purposes of extermination, as in the case of the Jews, but as Germanic settlers of lands that were to be gained permanently for the Germanic cause.

In the course of the German occupation, little was done to integrate either Denmark or Norway into the Germanic political or economic system, but Hitler had stated on several occasions that he intended to make these countries part of his Greater Germanic Reich and there is no reason to doubt that this was indeed his intention. He had, however, recognized the necessity to proceed carefully in dealing with these Germanic peoples, and believed that several transitional stages might be required before they could be fully incorporated into his Germanic union. That either Clausen or Quisling would have been selected to lead one of these transitional governments seems unlikely, for Clausen was too obviously incompetant and Quisling too much a Norwegian nationalist for Nazi purposes. It is more probable that Denmark as well as Norway would have been made a Reichskommissariat, and that such reliable German National Socialists as Gunther Pancke and Josef Terboven would have been left in charge of the administration to carry on a program of Gleichschaltung and the spiritual reeducation of the population on behalf of the Germanic idea. The process of amalgamation would presumably have taken a good deal longer than in Austria. But when th stage of actual annexation of the Scandinavian countries to the Reich had been reached, it can be taken as certain that, as in the case of Austria, they too would have been broken into smaller state and party administrative units, and that a systematic campaign would have been conducted to destroy the very concept of a Denmark or a Norway."

Ibid, pp.139-140

"German ideas on the future of France had fluctuated sharply in the course of the summer of 1940. Initially, they had contemplated large-scale annexation, as is clear from the following official and confidential briefing to the German press by the Propaganda Ministry, dated 12 July 1940:

The new order for Europe is to be quite consciously placed under Germany's sole auspices. It was already clear from the directives of the Propaganda Ministry that in future France would only play a role as a small Atlantic state. One must envisage this quite concretely: apart from Italy's territorial demands on France, our demands too will be very large. The Fuhrer has not yet said the final word and one is dependent on guessing as to the size of the German damns which will be contained in the peace treaty with France. It seems certain, however, that, apart from Alsace-Lorraine, we will also add the main parts of Burgundy, with the Plateau of Langres and Dijon as the capital, to the territory of the Reich. People are already beginning to talk of a 'Reichsgau Burgundy'. Also the Channel ports such as Dunkirk, Bologne [sic!] etc. will at least become German naval bases if not Reich territory as such . . .

As far as France is concerned, the maxim will be: the destruction of the Peace of Westphalia. Some people are even talking of a revocation of the partition agreed in the Treaty of Verdun in 843. For this reason, everything which serves to encourage an economic, political, or economic revival of France will be destroyed. We have no faith in any attempts at renewal in an authoritarian direction in France. We consider that all these attempts are simply camouflage and that the ideas of 1789 will soon show through again together with a revived chauvinism. For this reason, we shall have to draw certain sober conclusions which will indeed be drawn. The peace treaty will eliminate France not only as a great power but as a state with any political influence in Europe. As far as the colonial issue is concerned, things are not yet clear. . ..
However, given Britain's refusal to make peace, Hitler had soon come to the conclusion that, for the time being at any rate, it would be better to grant France relatively generous terms in the hope of winning her cooperation in the war against Britain. These included permission for the continued existence of a semi-independent rump French state under Marshal Petain as head of state with its capital in the town of Vichy."

J. Noakes and G. Pridham (ed.), Nazism 1919-1945: Volume 3 Foreign Policy, War and Racial Extermination, A Documentary Reader (University of Exeter Press, 2000), p.272

"In winning converts to the Germanic idea, Himmler's programs were as miserably unsuccessful in Alsace and Lorraine as in all other parts of Europe. His trusted liutenant Gottlob Berger wrote a fitting epitaph for Nazi policies in Alsace in a letter to Himmler of June 21, 1944, after the Allied landings in Normandy: "The Alsatians are swine [ein Sauvolk]," he said. "They had already counted on the return of the French and the English, and were therefore particularly hostile and hateful when the retribution came. Reichsfuhrer! I think we should deport half of them -- anywhere. Stalin will undoubtedly be glad to have them."

Of the territory under the administration of the German military government in France, Hitler left no doubt about his intentions with respect to the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine. At the very beginning of the German occupation he had been given orders that these provinces were to be restored to Germany in the shortest possible time, and by 1942 all preparations that had been made for their future incorporation into the Reich.

Equally clear was Hitler's intention to annex the areas of the so-called Closed Zone, that broad strip of border territory from the mouth of the Somme to the lake of Geneva. For strategic purposes he also proposed to retain control over fortifications along the Atlantic coast. There was some talk among Nazi leaders about detaching Brittany from France and making it an independent state, but Hitler seems to have taken little interest in this project.

In speculating about a future of what was to be left of France in a Nazi-ordered world, a question that naturally arises is what Hitler's policies might have been if the Vichy government had cooperated more actively with Germany or had actually joined in the war on Germany's side. In commenting on this problem, Hitler had remarked in May of 1942 that, even if the French threw in their lot with the Axis, they must clearly understand that Germany intended to retain strategic positions it now occupied along the Channel coast and that they must resign themselves to the idea of a satisfying the territorial demands of Germany, Italy, and Spain in Europe and overseas. In fact, all that Hitler apperas to have been willing to concede to the French in return for their cooperation was an extension of French colonial territory in Central Africa at the expense of Britain, and presumably a guarantee of whatever territory remained to France in Europe after the demands of Germany, Italy, and Spain had been met.

After he had embarked on the conquest of Russia, Hitler stated that Germany would now acquire so much territory and so many resources in the east that in the future it would not need France at all. But this did not effect his plans for Alsace, Lorraine, the Closed Zone, and a large part of the French Atlantic coast. Further, as he told his associates in April 1942, Germany ahd legitimate claims to the former kingdom of Burgundy, which had been German territory from time immemorial and which the French had stolen in the period of Germany's weakness.

What Hitler meant by the ancient kingdom of Burgundy and what territories he would have claimed under that title for purposes of annexation to Germany will never be known for certain. There is reason to wonder, however, whether Hitler would have allowed even a French rump state without Burgundy to exist indefinitely. Given Hitler's fear and hatred of France, combined with his insatiable greed, it seems probable that the Nazis would soon have begun to regard rump France, like rump Poland, as a desirable and necessary area for Germanic expansion and that this territory too would have been absorbed into the Germanic empire and subjected to a full-scale program of Germanisation. As, by that time, a large proportion of the "Germanic" elements would have been removed from rump France already, the re-Germanisation of this area would presumably have required its most total resettlement."

Norman Rich, Hitler's War Aims: The Establishment of the New Order (New York: W.W. Norton & Company, Inc, 1974), pp.238-239

Hitler also had it in for the warmongerers and Germanphobes of Luxembourg and the Netherlands who were also part of the Anglo-French-Yankee-Zionist-Bolshevik-Pan Slav-Plutocratic Axis Worldwide International Conspiracy to destroy Germany and Europe, as revealed in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The Germans entered the Netherlands and Luxembourg to bring flowers to their citizens just as Hitler later immolated himself like a Buddhist monk in order to protest the gross violation of human rights at Dresden:

"Hitler made no secret of his intentions in Luxembourg. "Luxembourg shall be regained for German folkdom in the shortest possible time," he announced in a decree defining the tasks of the German civil administration. "In order to reach this goal quickly and without friction, the initiative for all administrative measures in Luxembourg must in principle emanate from the chief of the civil administration, who is directly under my command. . . and who is responsible to me alone for the administration of Luxembourg." In a proclamation of his own, Simon informed the ethnic Germans of Luxembourg that he intended to conduct his administration on the principle that "Luxembourg is a German land." There was no need to remodel it, but simply to free it from previous remodelings that had changed its German character. Later, speaking to a group of Luxembourg workers, he candidly admitted that Luxembourg would never have a plebiscite to decide whether its people wanted to join the Reich. That decision had been made on May 10, 1940, when German soldiers had crossed the frontier and protected the country from destruction. "On the day when the first grave for a German hero-soldier was dug we made the following decision: "This land was won and will be kept by German blood and therefore will remain German for all eternity."

Public proclomations were accompanied by official actions. On August 6, 1940, Simon issued a decree making German the exclusive language of Luxembourg, with the justification that "the language of the land of Luxembourg and of its inhabitants is and always has been German." In a public statement commenting on this decree, Simon said, "From now on no Luxembourger will be expected to use the language of a ****** nation [einer ver******ten Nation]. Luxembourg is too proud of its heritage and its native language to be the parrot of France and to blabber French noises." Luxembourg was no longer to be "the lackey of a culturally degenerate France. . . Away with this foreign gibberish. Your language shall be German and only German." According to the decree of August 6, German was to be the sole language of government, law, and education, as well as the only language to be used in all aspects of economic life. All periodicals had to be in German, as did all advertising and public announcements. By September 30 all place names in Luxembourg were to be Germanised and all signs, names of stores and inscriptions on buildings were to be rendered into German. A subsequent decree required that all citizens of Luxembourg should Germanise their names. . .

In November 1940 the entire administrative system of Luxembourg, including local and district government, the police, and the tax structure, was reorganised and brought into line with German administrative procedures. In that same month Luxembourg law courts and tribunals were abolished and replaced by new ones organized along German lines. In the spring of 1942 the entire body of German civil law was introduced.

The Luxembourg educational system, too, was Germanised and education was made compulsory for all persons of German or related blood. Not only was German made the sole language of instruction, but in the lower schools (Volksschulen) French could no longer be taught at all. New text ooks were introduced which presented the German and Nazi points of view. Teaching in both public and private schools was rigidly supervised: teachers suspected of educational sabotage or uncooperative attitudes were sent to Germany for indoctrination, or jailed.

Germanisation also proceeded at a forced pace in the economy. A decree of May 10, 1940, the day the Germans entered the country, mad the Reichsmark the legal tender at a rate of exchange fixed by the Germans. This decree was supplemented by later orders fixing wages and prices and introducing German occupation currency which allowed the Germans to buy in Luxembourg but made it impossible almost for Luxembourgers to buy in the Reich, assuring a one-way flow of goods. . . .

Hitler's plans for the future of the Netherlands and Luxembourg do not appear to have contrasted in any way from his plans for Denmark and Norway. In contrast to the Scandinavian countries, however, the Nazis had pursued policies in the Netherlands and Luxembourg which made their intention absolutely clear.

In the case of the Netherlands, although Nazi leaders might disagree about tactics and engage in vicious struggles for power among themselves, they were unanimous on one thing: The Netherlands was to be annexed to the Reich. Well before the end of the war most of the conditions for the union of the Netherlands to the Nazi empire had been created. The distinctions in citizenship had been eliminated, the Jews were gone. In the economic sphere the customs and currency barriers had been removed, and a large degree of integration with the economy of the Reich had been achieved. The Nazification of the educational system, cultural, labour, and all other organisations was well under way. There remained very little to do except to settle with Mussert and to decide how many Dutch peasants were to be drafted for the colonisation of the east. The Netherlands was ready to take its place beside Austria, the Sudetenland, and West Prussia as a province of the Greater German Reich.

Ibid., pp.163-168

- " Where these boundries would be drawn was never determined, but if negotiations on this question had ever taken place it is possible that they would have been based on the German-Japanese military agreement of December 1941, which provided for the division of the world into spheres of military operation along the seventieth degree of longitude, an agreement which left Germany and Italy responsible for the territory west of that line, Japan for the territory to the east.

This would have meant that Siberia, China, India, and the greater part of Pakistan would have fallen to the Japanese, while the Arab countries, with Africa, Afghanistan, would have gone to the Axis. "


Yes sir...

Hitler was ready to leave those Siberian palefaces at Nippon's tender mercies as well.

What a hero of the White race and Western civilization.


I mean, look at his chutzpah!

Russia had for so long time served as the BULWARK of Europe against Asia, suffering horrendous losses in its struggle against Mongols and other barbarians that would have otherwise continued their rampage in the Central Europe!

And then this Austrian upstart decides that Russians themselves are "Asian," and that he's going to put an end to Russia as a state!

" For centuries Russia drew nourishment from this Germanic nucleus of its upper leading strata. Today it can be regarded as almost totally exterminated and extinguished. It has been replaced by the Jew. Impossible as it is for the Russian by himself to shake off the yoke of the Jew by his own resources, it is equally impossible for the Jew to maintain the mighty empire forever. He himself is no element of organization, but a ferment of decomposition. The Persian empire in the east is ripe for collapse. And the end of Jewish rule in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a state.

--- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

In all likelihood, by destroying the shield that Russia had been against the "yellow peril," he would have given REAL Asians a wonderful potential position to begin a massive offensive against his Brave New Europe!


Petr

I'm glad Hitler finally put an end to the Duchy of Luxembourg's aggression. Even their Jewish protectors couldn't stop Hitler's justice from blasting through its gates.

Russia had for so long time served as the BULWARK of Europe against Asia, suffering horrendous losses in its struggle against Mongols and other barbarians that would have otherwise continued their rampage in the Central Europe!

While I agree with every criticism of Hitler presented here, the ONLY thing that kept the Mongols out of Central Europe was the death of the Kha-Khan and the decision thereafter to divide and consolidate the lands already conquered. The ONLY military defeat the Mongols suffered in their expansion phase was to the Mamelukes.

I like the mongols anyway, killed a lot of ragheads( and when they 1st hit Islamic territory spared the non islamic population when they took cities but killed the rags man woman and child).

- "While I agree with every criticism of Hitler presented here, the ONLY thing that kept the Mongols out of Central Europe was the death of the Kha-Khan and the decision thereafter to divide and consolidate the lands already conquered. The ONLY military defeat the Mongols suffered in their expansion phase was to the Mamelukes."


And AFTER that expansion phase was over, Russians had to fight with the Golden Horde and Khanate of Crimea for centuries.

Not to mention how they had fought tribes like Polovtsians and Pechenegs before Mongols.

Like I've said, your history knowledge stinks.

Quit your silly Mongol-admiring. If firearms had been invented, they would have been blasted out of their saddles.


Petr

Quit your silly Mongol-admiring. If firearms had been invented

If at the minimum early 18th century firearms had been invented perhaps, firearms did not approach nearly the effectiveness of long and composite bows till that time. The advantage of firearms over bows prior to that era was simply that effective archers were much much harder to train. And your point is irrelevant...

If the Parthians had machine guns they would have overrun the Roman empire and conquered the world.

If the Confederacy had nuclear weapons and modern aircraft the North would have been blown to bits.

etc...

And yes I know the Russians fought the golden horde.

Already at 1514, at the battle of Chaldiran, Ottoman artillery blew the Safavid Turkmen cavalry to bits.

(Ottoman artillery had actually made mincemeat out of Turkmen nomads already at Tercan in 1473)


I wish that genocidal Mongol filth had gotten the same treatment in the 13th century.

God, how I loath those nomadic pillagers. Unable to make honest living for themselves, so they had to steal and pillage from productive farmers.

When Chinese rose to rebellion against the Mongol rule in the 14th century, they castrated all those Mongols that they didn't kill right away.


Petr

The Ming rulers were far worse then the Mongols and under them began the technological decline of China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuan_Dynasty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_Dynasty

Some historians argue that Early Ming China was the most advanced nation on Earth at the time.

Meaning the Mongols did a good job and the Ming fucked it up.


With a Confucian aversion to trade, Hongwu also supported the creation of self-supporting agricultural communities. Neo-feudal land-tenure developments of late Song and Yuan times were expropriated with the establishment of the Ming dynasty. Great landed estates were confiscated by the government, fragmented, and rented out; and private slavery was forbidden. Consequently, after the death of Yongle Emperor, independent peasant landholders predominated in Chinese agriculture.

Under Hongwu, the Mongol bureaucrats who had dominated the government for nearly a century under the Yuan dynasty were replaced by the Han Chinese. The traditional Confucian examination system that selected state bureaucrats or civil servants on the basis of merit and knowledge of literature and philosophy was revamped. Candidates for posts in the civil service or the officer corps of the 80,000-man army, once again, had to pass the traditional competitive examinations in the Classics. The Confucian scholar gentry, marginalized under the Yuan for nearly a century once again assumed its predominant role in the Chinese state.

Hongwu attempted to, and largely succeeded in, consolidating control all aspects of government so that no other group could gain enough power to overthrow him and to buttress the country's defenses against the Mongols. As emperor, Hongwu increasingly concentrated power in his own hands and abolished the Imperial Secretariat, which had been the main central administrative body under past dynasties, after suppressing a plot for which he had blamed his chief minister. When the emperorship became hereditary, the Chinese recognized this and established the office of prime or chief minister. While incompetent emperors could come and go, the prime minister could guarantee a level of continuity and competence in the government. Hongwu, wishing to concentrate absolute authority in his own hands, abolished the office of prime minister and so removed the only insurance against incompetent emperors. Hongwu was succeeded by his grandson, but he son was soon usurped by his uncle Chengzu, a younger son of Hongwu, who ruled as the Emperor Yongle from 1403 to 1424 (Yongle was responsible for moving the capital back to Beijing).

- " The Ming rulers were far worse then the Mongols and under them began the technological decline of China. "


Even if true (why are you relying on Wikipedia articles?), irrelevant to our subject.

The main thing, as far as I'm concerned, is that Mongols got some righteous punishment for their deeds:

"A Chinese army invaded Mongolia in 1380. In 1388 a decisive victory was won; about 70,000 Mongols were taken prisoner, and Karakorum was annihilated."



- "Meaning the Mongols did a good job and the Ming fucked it up."

Oh boy. You really have a nerdy infatuation on Mongols going on.


Petr