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friedrich braun
09-21-2004, 10:54 PM
Maybe someone can offer a theory why Christianity is everywhere in decline except in the US? I have my ideas, but I prefer to first let others speak.

That Old Time Religion


Still strange, but different: Three new books look at the changing shape of religion in America.
by Jeff Sharlet

The Rise of the "Pluggies"

At the Mosaic Church in Los Angeles , "cultural creatives" worship their god to the thump-thump of a simulated heartbeat piped in through loudspeakers. Their church is a nightclub, and their liturgy includes the kind of dance routines that used to make Jesse Helms nervous in the days of the culture wars. On the Sunday Alan Wolfe attended, four mud-covered men leapt onto the stage and washed themselves off to reveal that each was of a different race. At the end of the service, a church member dressed as an electrical plug emerged after cheerleaders spelled out its name: P- L-U-G-G-I-E! Plug in to the future of faith in America .

The pluggies aren't a fringe group; they're Baptists, Southern Baptists, no less, and their church cleaves to the core tenets of that denomination concerning what women can and cannot do and what homosexuals should never do. Mosaic is a kind of missionary church, its field the educated elite of the entertainment business, and its method that of a chameleon, adapting the coloration of pop culture to avoid scrutiny of its theology. The transformation described by Wolfe in The Transformation of American Religion: How We Actually Live Our Faith has as much, if not more, to do with how Americans worship as with what they believe.

Americans are as religious as they ever were (which is to say, very), but the transformation of Wolfe's title has been in the main toward tolerance and rationalism. Sacraments are out, small group worship is in. Hymns are passé, pop is hot. Most of all, theology has gone missing. We are, according to Wolfe, a nation of "switchers," hopping from denomination to denomination, seeking not God but a community that serves our "needs." Utility and aesthetics dominate American religion, he argues, not just in the pews but in the pulpits, where blue-jeaned "inspirational speakers" preach prosperity on stages cleared of crosses and thump not the Bible but Bruce Wilkinson's bestselling The Prayer of Jabez. "If Jabez had worked on Wall Street," Wolfe quotes Wilkinson as saying, "he might have prayed, ‘Lord, increase the value of my investment portfolios.'"

Wolfe finds this kind of self-serving spirituality banal, but the irony of The Transformation of American Religion is that he ventures no further into theology than do the people he writes about. Is The Prayer of Jabez snake oil or a fair interpretation of scripture that doesn't conform to contemporary conceptions of virtue? (Does God want us to be rich?) What does it feel like to pray the Prayer of Jabez, to have faith in an interventionist God? You won't find the answers here. Wolfe's book meets the standards that he says rule American faith -- it is a useful, intelligent exploration of the demographics of belief, and it is smoothly written -- but it does not transcend them.

The author of numerous books on Americans' civic ideas, Wolfe seems to have adopted as his long-term project a sociology of reassurance, rebuking liberals for their anti-populist hysteria and conservatives for their hijacking of the term "majority." Wolfe writes from the reasonable center, describing the nation as if it were a kiddie pool, shallow but refreshing. "Believers who prefer a God of love to a God of truth," he writes, "are not going to kill for their beliefs -- or to give their support to those who do." Tell that to the Jesus of Matthew's gospel, who promised, "I came not to bring peace, but a sword." Love isn't so simple.

Nor is American religion, not even the kind that strives for simplicity. Wolfe argues that whenever faith and pop culture collide, it's faith that gives way, a sign of hope to him: "The more we refrain from treating religion as if it has some status that makes it different from everything else in the world -- holier and more moral if you like it, more sectarian and divisive if you do not -- the greater our chances of avoiding religion's ugly legacies while still being able to appreciate its benefits for the individuals who practice it and the democratic society they inhabit." Forget "everything else"; how does this vision of religion differ from a bowling league? Wolfe rightly scolds the pundits who write about American faith "as if Jonathan Edwards is still preaching and his congregation is still quaking in fear," but he errs in his literalist reading of the loving God who has replaced Edwards's angry one; Edwards's intellectualism may have faded, but his thunder still echoes in maxims such as "Love the sinner, hate the sin."

Likewise, Edwards's insistence on the importance of the supernatural world thrives, ironically, in the growing legions of self-proclaimed pagans and in the far greater number of Christians and Jews who rely daily on magical thinking. And this is to say nothing, of course, of supernatural-minded denominations, such as the holy rollers who are stricken by the spirit and babble in tongues not for "benefits" but because God, or their fervent belief in Him, allows them no choice. So long as such strange gods survive, it's hard to have faith in Wolfe's depiction of American religion as simply another "stock market, [with] its ups and downs."

The Margins of Faith

Don Lattin's Following Our Bliss: How the Spiritual Ideals of the Sixties Shape Our Lives Today does a better job of exploring religious eclecticism in all its frightening glory, from the hocus pocus of the "human potential" movement at the chi-chi Esalen Institute in Big Sur to the "love" Jim Jones mixed with the Kool-Aid at Jonestown. There's not much deep thinking here -- much of the book is recycled from reports filed for the San Francisco Chronicle -- but Lattin does not shy away from the sharp edges, the contradictions, the margins of faith that tell us as much about belief as do broad surveys.

His chapter on the children of the Hare Krishna movement reveals much about how alternative seekers often want more, not less, authoritarianism than traditional religion offers. This hunger for strong religious authority in turn offers a partial explanation for the new orthodoxy among many young Catholics, evangelical Protestants and Jews. And Lattin's account of a Native American peyote ritual makes "small group" spirituality understandable, not simply as another strain of self-help therapy, but as an attempt to experience the divine through intense, focused discussion.

Once we see such movements in this light, it may not matter whether groups meet over peyote tea or coffee and cookies. Lattin adds the "why" to Wolfe's investigation of "how we live our faith." Wolfe's is the more thoughtful book, but Lattin better captures the double vision of religion, always looking forward and backward at the same time.

The More Things Change

In Knocking on Heaven's Door: American Religion in the Age of Counterculture, Mark Oppenheimer is specific about what he believes shaped the transformation of American faith: "African American struggle was the precondition, the stylistic and political inspiration." In three of the five case studies in his book, white religious activists appropriated the language of the civil-rights movement, and more: Unitarian gay activists, Episcopalian feminist priests, and Jewish havurah hippies all described themselves as "******s."

This sort of hyperbole is evidence of Oppenheimer's other major claim, that the aesthetic transformation of American religion is more closely linked to questions of individual identity than to major shifts in its theological underpinnings. In stressing the theological continuity of our worship, Oppenheimer supplies a historical view of religion in America that is worth quoting at length: "The mainline churches survived the strange, strange times of the nineteenth century… the days of latter rain, speaking in tongues, gifts of prophesying, and conversations with the dead. Somehow, the old religions survived… Catholics still believed in the Pope and Episcopalians did not. Unitarians still did not believe that Jesus was God. Baptists did not baptize their young. Jews did not baptize at all. And still, people kept coming. The 1860s couldn't change that. And no, the 1960s couldn't either." That old-time religion -- American faith -- remains as weird as it ever was.


Jeff Sharlet is an editor of Killing the Buddha and co-author of Killing the Buddha: A Heretic's Bible.
http://www.killingthebuddha.com/critical_devotion/otime_relig.htm

IronWorker
09-22-2004, 06:20 AM
Maybe someone can offer a theory why Christianity is everywhere in decline except in the US? I have my ideas, but I prefer to first let others speak.

Well Christianity iz in decline in the US, just not in as steep a decline as Europe. In the 1950s something like 90% of the population attended Chruch, now only 50% of the population attends Church. In parts of Western Europe Church attendance is down into the teens percentage wise.
(A good source for figures on this is Pat Buchanans Death of the West)

My opinion iz several factors play into this. The US edumacation system teaches almost no science. Large groups of dysgenic immigrants enter into the US and boost Church attendance. Also isolated rural communiteis maintain their dated Christian traditions more easily because of lack of contact with the outside World (in Urban Europe this is practically impossible.)

friedrich braun
09-22-2004, 04:26 PM
I meant everywhere in the West, of course. Christianity is in fact growing in the Third World.

wintermute
09-22-2004, 04:36 PM
Also isolated rural communiteis maintain their dated Christian traditions more easily because of lack of contact with the outside World

I actually hadn't considered this. American religiousity is a fascinating subject, although I myself don't have many theories about why it is so robust. I'd be interested to hear Braun's take on all this.

WM

Perun
09-22-2004, 04:57 PM
Well Christianity iz in decline in the US, just not in as steep a decline as Europe. In the 1950s something like 90% of the population attended Chruch, now only 50% of the population attends Church. In parts of Western Europe Church attendance is down into the teens percentage wise.
(A good source for figures on this is Pat Buchanans Death of the West)


There is a difference between being a church-goer and a christian. Many christians dont go to church because they're annoyed by the absolute bullsh*t priests spout in their sermons.

FadeTheButcher
09-22-2004, 04:59 PM
Check out Samuel P. Huntington's new book. America is still overwhelmingly Christian. I will post details later.

otto_von_bismarck
09-22-2004, 05:02 PM
Check out Samuel P. Huntington's new book. America is still overwhelmingly Christian. I will post details later.
I imagine you draw support for your theory by your observation of your home state of Alabama.

That observation would not generally hold true of the NorthEast or I imagine the West Coast.

SteamshipTime
09-22-2004, 05:17 PM
That observation would not generally hold true of the NorthEast or I imagine the West Coast.

Not surprising in the slightest.

otto_von_bismarck
09-22-2004, 05:21 PM
Not surprising in the slightest.
Your equating our heathenism with our liberalism... problem with doing that is in the South you have conservative christians. Not here... up here( with the exception of the Italians) the churchgoing christians tend to be annoying self righteous social justice catholics.

IronWorker
09-22-2004, 07:53 PM
That observation would not generally hold true of the NorthEast or I imagine the West Coast.

Very true. Check this link out.

Northwest seen as 'unchurched' yet religious

While fewer people in the Northwest than anywhere else in the country say they belong to a religious institution, most here do identify with some religious tradition, according to a new book examining faith in Washington, Oregon and Alaska.

"The region is unchurched but not unreligious," said Patricia O'Connell Killen, co-editor of "Religion and Public Life in the Pacific Northwest: The None Zone" and chairwoman of Pacific Lutheran University's religion department.

In the Northwest, 62.8 percent of the population was unaffiliated with any particular house of worship, the book says. That's compared to 40.6 percent nationwide. At the same time, two-thirds of adults identify themselves with a religious tradition.

Those who say they are part of a religious tradition but don't attend a house of worship are "the biggest unknown," Killen said at a conference launching the book. "We have no data on these people. These people are the wild cards" in politics, public debates and elections.

The Northwest also has the largest percentage of people who answer "none" to the question: "What is your religious tradition, if any?"

Twenty-five percent of adults in Washington and Oregon say they have no religious identification, compared to 14.1 percent nationwide.

But that doesn't mean Northwesterners aren't spiritual. "Even among the 'nones,' only a small minority identify as atheist or agnostic," the book says. Northwesterners may, instead, express their spirituality in anything from nature religion to working for environmental protection.

Link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001923151_religbook08m.html

friedrich braun
09-22-2004, 08:59 PM
I actually hadn't considered this. American religiousity is a fascinating subject, although I myself don't have many theories about why it is so robust. I'd be interested to hear Braun's take on all this.

WM

I will actually post my theory this evening.

friedrich braun
09-23-2004, 12:29 AM
The persistence of the religious worldview in America may be due in significant measure to the strength of the cultural fundamentalist movement in American society in recent years that has succeeded in getting its message and agenda into the public schools, the mass media, and other social institutions. One powerful indicator of the success of this movement is the low level of scientific literacy about human evolution in American society as compared to other developed nations.

otto_von_bismarck
09-23-2004, 05:34 AM
The persistence of the religious worldview in America may be due in significant measure to the strength of the cultural fundamentalist movement in American society in recent years that has succeeded in getting its message and agenda into the public schools, the mass media, and other social institutions

Definitely not the public schools. The teachers unions are one of the most liberal lobbies in the country, definitely hostile countrywide to any kind of religion.

Petr
09-23-2004, 11:27 AM
- "One powerful indicator of the success of this movement is the low level of scientific literacy about human evolution in American society as compared to other developed nations."


Nonsense. As an inhabitant of Finland I can testify that in my high school biology books we saw just those same-old, same-old discredited "proofs" for macro-evolution, "peppered moths", "horse evolution", "archaeopteryx", "Haeckel's embryos," et al.

Practically nothing except those few "icons of evolution" that are spoon-fed to students all around the world.


Scientific ignorance at the popular level protects the EVOLUTION HYPOTHESIS, not creationism - most people just accept without criticism what the materialist-controlled science establishment tells them about their origins.

Heck, free competition on the scientific field is just the fondest wish of design argument promoters (not just Biblical creationists), but cowardly evolutionists won't let us have it, at least without a fight!


Perhaps you guys won't admit it, but this idea that those who are skeptical about evolution "just don't know enough about it" is right there in same league with "racism is just a product of ignorance."

Contact with other races often leads to conflicts and increase in race consciousness, and neutral assessment of evidence for the spontaneous evolution of all life produces some evo-skeptics in the increasing percentage.

Read this account on how the challenge to evolution theory was promptly suppressed in Serbia, (and Italy!) and see if you get that familiar feeling of an international conspiracy breathing at your neck...


"Creationism’ explodes in the Balkans

by Michael Matthews, AiG–USA

11 September 2004

If anyone doubts there is an international plot to assassinate creation, just take a look at recent events in the ‘powder keg of Europe’: Serbia.

Earlier this week, the education minister of this Balkan nation, Ljiljana Colic, announced that eighth-grade biology classes will not be teaching evolution this school year, and in the future the teachers must give equal time to the alternative view that God created.

Based on the reaction, you’d think another world war had started."

...

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2004/0911balkans.asp



Petr