Why not. It's easier than blaming yourself for anything isn't it?

I am not sure who here blames the Jews for everything that has gone wrong in our societies. There are, however, those here who irrationally deny Jewish influence has had any detrimental effect upon our culture without first examining the matter in any detail.

It's just passing the buck. People have always done this.

You can see it in politics. A politician in power for a week will take credit for anything that has gone good during that week. 3 years into their term though they'll blame the last party/ruler for anything bad that is still happening.

It's human nature to blame anyone but you for your own mistakes. Surely you don't make mistakes so someone else must be to blame.

Look at WW2. Many Jewish scientists fled to the US where they helped on projects such as the Atomic bomb. Germany wasn't better off without them that's for sure.

I agree. But how long until this threat gets deleted?

Some of the blame-the-Jews mentality seems to be a search for blame. Blame someone else. It's a common human instinct.

I've read that during the Middle Ages the Arabs loved the Jews. They were seen as great scientists and helped the Arabs with technology.

I've read that during the Middle Ages the Arabs loved the Jews.
Jews were always discriminated against in Islamic countries during the Middle Ages.

They were seen as great scientists and helped the Arabs with technology.
This was true in some cases and at certain periods of time under certain rulers.

Jews were always discriminated against in Islamic countries during the Middle Ages.


This was true in some cases and at certain periods of time under certain rulers.


Got any more info on it? I just saw it briefly mentioned somewhere.

It's just passing the buck. People have always done this.
I don't really see the argument you are making here. Jews do have substantial power in the West today and they do use that power (through their political organizations) to advance their own interests (e.g., fighting anti-Semitism, supporting Israel, attacking Christianity) at the expense of other populations. Do you deny this?

You can see it in politics. A politician in power for a week will take credit for anything that has gone good during that week. 3 years into their term though they'll blame the last party/ruler for anything bad that is still happening.
You are stereotyping here. I thought you were opposed to that, Yellow. I have never denied that the failures of our own culture (e.g., egalitarianism, humanism, moralism and so on) made our Jewish problem possible in the first place. Likewise, it is quite irrational to deny that Jews organize themselves politically to advance what they perceive to be their own ethnic interests.

It's human nature to blame anyone but you for your own mistakes. Surely you don't make mistakes so someone else must be to blame.
Yellow is making the a priori assumption here that the Jews are entirely innocent with respect to Western cultural decline, that racialists are simply irrationally blaming Jews for their own problems. After all, its simply human nature, right? That's an invalid argument, Yellow.

Look at WW2.
I have studied WW2. If you look at WW2, then you will conclude the WW2 was started by the Allies when they declared war on Germany. Only with the declaration of war on Germany by Britain and France did a local border dispute transform into a world war. So Britain and France caused the Second World War. So what caused Britain and France to declare war on Germany?

Many Jewish scientists fled to the US where they helped on projects such as the Atomic bomb.
I notice Yellow forgot to mention that Jews also betrayed the United States and passed on classified information from the Manhattan Project to the Soviet Union.

Germany wasn't better off without them that's for sure.
I disagree. Germany was far ahead of the Allies in all sorts of areas during the war, many more areas than it lagged behind. Furthermore, the vast majority of German academics supported the new regime.

Got any more info on it? I just saw it briefly mentioned somewhere.
Check out Islamic and Christian Spain In the Early Middle Ages by Thomas F. Glick. There are several books about anti-Semitism in the Middle Ages out as well. I will do a library search for them in a minute.

Furthermore, the vast majority of German academics supported the new regime.

Apparently not those working on Germany's atomic bomb programme.

Apparently not those working on Germany's atomic bomb programme
Why did Germany's atomic bomb programme fail? Why did America's succeed?

Why did Germany's atomic bomb programme fail? Why did America's succeed?


That's actually being debated for decades. One is that the German scientists working on their bomb programme didn't like Hitler much. Another is that too many scientists had fled to the Allies. Another is that they just came up with a way they thought would work and it didn't.

That's actually being debated for decades. One is that the German scientists working on their bomb programme didn't like Hitler much. Another is that too many scientists had fled to the Allies. Another is that they just came up with a way they thought would work and it didn't.I saw something about this on the History Channel one time. Didn't the Allies manage to sabotage the heavy water plant in Scandinavia the Germans were relying upon?

I saw something about this on the History Channel one time. Didn't the Allies manage to sabotage the heavy water plant in Scandinavia the Germans were relying upon?

Commandos I think. But even still that shouldn't have brought them to a full stop.

One of the things the Germans did wrong it seems was that they didn't moderate their pile which meant that they couldn't control it very well. Something like that.

I don't recall Germany suffering from any deficit of intelligence in its atomic bomb project. I seem to recall the German plan going awry because of the circumstances of the war. Do you have any more information on this?

I don't recall Germany suffering from any deficit of intelligence in its atomic bomb project. I seem to recall the German plan going awry because of the circumstances of the war. Do you have any more information on this?

No. Might be fun searching for it though on some crapy web site.

I blame Jews for subverting the US government through organizations such as the AIPAC, JINSA, WZO, ADL, etc. Jews are the ones who have dragged the US into a war against the Islamic world by causing the US government to uncritically take the side of Israel in the Jewish-Arab conflict -- a conflict for which the Jews are unquestionably at fault. Jews tried to sucker the US into a war against the Arabs back in 1967 when they attacked the USS Liberty for about 45 minutes and tried to eliminate the entire crew (hoping to make the US think the Egyptians were to blame), but their plan failed. Now, a few decades later, they've succeeded in getting the US to invade and occupy Iraq. The jury is still out on whether they'll manage to get the US military to do the same to Syria or Iran, but rest assured, the Israelis would like that very much, and they'll do what they can to make it happen.

On the US domestic front, Jews are the major force behind lax immigration laws, gun control, the "gay rights" movement, radical feminism, "hate crime" laws, affirmative action, abortion "rights," and just about every other damaging liberal political movement.

Jews are the most hypocritical people on earth, and they've turned the US into a similarly hypocritical nation -- one that spouts about "human rights" but violates its own citizens and those of other nations at every turn in order to serve Jewish interests.

In some nations other than the US, Jews have whined enough to succeed in getting criticism of Jews or the questioning of the Jewish agenda outlawed. There are people serving honest-to-goodness prison terms for no other reason than speaking their minds about issues such as what happened to Jews in WWII. Hurt some kike's feelings, go to jail -- that's what the law says in several "free" nations now.

The problem is that Jews think the world revolves around them. They think that anything they do is okay as long as it's "good for the Jews." Well, they're wrong.

There is a subtle, but important, difference between "blaming the jews for everything" and acknowledging that there are jewish influences behind many of our problems.

Are the jews to blame for many of these problems? Sure. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

However the rest of us are not blameless. We, and countless host nations before us, have allowed the jews to come in again and again. Maybe we refuse to learn from the past, hoping that this time it will be different. Maybe most of us are still blind to the jewish threat. I think it is a combination of both, really.

I find the view that the Jews are trying to take down the "White Race" very paranoid, and somewhat egotistical.

I doubt "the Jews" sit up late at night trying to defile and destroy the white race.

If "the Jews" actually do harm "the White Race", it's because of the fact that one person's benefit is usually another's harm.

If "the Jews" actually do harm "the White Race", it's because of the fact that one person's benefit is usually another's harm.

That is exactly what has already been said multiple times on this thread. Logically, Jews advance their own percieved interests, which are often at the expense of another's interests.

I read some time back ( and honestly can't remember the source) that hHtler declared certain areas of science to be "Jewish" and this handicaped reserach.
Fade is correct in that the loss of the heavy water plant and later the wter itself at "Telemark" was a bitter blow to the production of materials.

Germany was behind in the research and production and could not catch the " M.P.".
The ability was not lacking as far as I am awre it was the route taken and the means at their disposal which hindered German scientists.

That is exactly what has already been said multiple times on this thread. Logically, Jews advance their own percieved interests, which are often at the expense of another's interests.

So basically you're having a cry because the Jews are better than you?

What did my statement have to do with Jews being "better" or "worse"? It's about groups pursuing their own interests to the detriment of others. They are not the only group that does this. A group I belong to (Women) do this probably more than Jews.

The logical thing to do about these special interest groups is to oppose them. The logic I get from anti-anti-semites says that certain special interest groups both do not exist and should not be opposed if they are detrimental to your own interests. This is clearly silly.

For going along wit this post from "YD" , in that quite a few posts expressing displeasure with the jews are posted up.

I find the view that the Jews are trying to take down the "White Race" very paranoid, and somewhat egotistical.How so? I had Jews from the SPLC come to my college campus just last year to tell us how evil whiteness was and how racist white people are.

I doubt "the Jews" sit up late at night trying to defile and destroy the white race. There are plenty of Jews out there who fight racialism because they associate racialism (quite rightly) with anti-Semitism. So to 'fight anti-Semitism', these Jews tear down our culture and attempt to assert the commom humanity of all peoples.

If "the Jews" actually do harm "the White Race", it's because of the fact that one person's benefit is usually another's harm.Jews tear down whiteness because they feel it is an imperative to do so in the aftermath of 'The Holocaust'. And from their perspective, that makes perfect sense. We are simply pointing out that from our perspective, Jews who go about doing this (for their own ethnic reasons) are pissing us off.

So basically you're having a cry because the Jews are better than you?
We are out to advance our interests. Its as simple as that. We don't believe in a 'level playing field'. Jews stand in the way of increasing our power.

Cerberus, I would appreciate it if you could locate any further information about this subject.

I blame Jews for subverting the US government through organizations such as the AIPAC, JINSA, WZO, ADL, etc. Jews are the ones who have dragged the US into a war against the Islamic world by causing the US government to uncritically take the side of Israel in the Jewish-Arab conflict -- a conflict for which the Jews are unquestionably at fault. Jews tried to sucker the US into a war against the Arabs back in 1967 when they attacked the USS Liberty for about 45 minutes and tried to eliminate the entire crew (hoping to make the US think the Egyptians were to blame), but their plan failed. Now, a few decades later, they've succeeded in getting the US to invade and occupy Iraq. The jury is still out on whether they'll manage to get the US military to do the same to Syria or Iran, but rest assured, the Israelis would like that very much, and they'll do what they can to make it happen.

On the US domestic front, Jews are the major force behind lax immigration laws, gun control, the "gay rights" movement, radical feminism, "hate crime" laws, affirmative action, abortion "rights," and just about every other damaging liberal political movement.

Jews are the most hypocritical people on earth, and they've turned the US into a similarly hypocritical nation -- one that spouts about "human rights" but violates its own citizens and those of other nations at every turn in order to serve Jewish interests.

In some nations other than the US, Jews have whined enough to succeed in getting criticism of Jews or the questioning of the Jewish agenda outlawed. There are people serving honest-to-goodness prison terms for no other reason than speaking their minds about issues such as what happened to Jews in WWII. Hurt some kike's feelings, go to jail -- that's what the law says in several "free" nations now.

The problem is that Jews think the world revolves around them. They think that anything they do is okay as long as it's "good for the Jews." Well, they're wrong.

Your blame is too shallow. You presume to judge the Jews for all the evils of western culture, but it is that all of the popular monotheological religions are to blame. Christians, Jews, and Muslim People are all equally responsible for the downfall of the human condition.

Projecting their concept of morality as the one and only truth--Thou shall not kill; thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife; thou shall not steal; and so forth. These things are relative. It is these religions that have brought about a social degredation by subjugating the masses to their law. Most of western society is bound to the laws based on religious doctrine. Even if you do not practice these religions, you cannot escape the legal restrictions on which your bound to be a good Christian or Good Jew or good muslim.

It is self evident that most of the world's evils can be traced to this consequentually. Because we deny our will through legal justification, we create a rift between our ego and superego. We grow ever further apart consciously from our desires and as such, our mind begins to cave in on itself. You can find mental illness everywhere in our society. Schitzophrenia, Homosexuality, and a variety of other diseases loom over our heads because of these corrupt religions.

So basically you're having a cry because the Jews are better than you?

If the jews are so much better than us, why do they oppose all of us who want to get away from them and break free from their influence? Is it because they know they can't survive without us to prey upon?

Your blame is too shallow. You presume to judge the Jews for all the evils of western culture, but it is that all of the popular monotheological religions are to blame. Christians, Jews, and Muslim People are all equally responsible for the downfall of the human condition.

Projecting their concept of morality as the one and only truth--Thou shall not kill; thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife; thou shall not steal; and so forth. These things are relative. It is these religions that have brought about a social degredation by subjugating the masses to their law. Most of western society is bound to the laws based on religious doctrine. Even if you do not practice these religions, you cannot escape the legal restrictions on which your bound to be a good Christian or Good Jew or good muslim.

It is self evident that most of the world's evils can be traced to this consequentually. Because we deny our will through legal justification, we create a rift between our ego and superego. We grow ever further apart consciously from our desires and as such, our mind begins to cave in on itself. You can find mental illness everywhere in our society. Schitzophrenia, Homosexuality, and a variety of other diseases loom over our heads because of these corrupt religions.


My suggestions are to read up on the history of Judeo-Christianity my friend.

So basically you're having a cry because the Jews are better than you?

If Jews are "better" than other people, why is it that they are only able to survive as a nation and a people as parasites on the nations of others? Why is it that they fill economic "overhead" positions as speculators, financiers, and mass media moguls while the productive mental and physical labor is performed by their hosts? And why is it that these superior Jews can't exist in their own country without billions of dollars in aid from the US and countless other billions extorted from Germany and other European nations?

One would think that a superior people would be a little more self-sufficient and productive.

Your blame is too shallow. You presume to judge the Jews for all the evils of western culture, but it is that all of the popular monotheological religions are to blame. Christians, Jews, and Muslim People are all equally responsible for the downfall of the human condition.

Projecting their concept of morality as the one and only truth--Thou shall not kill; thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife; thou shall not steal; and so forth. These things are relative. It is these religions that have brought about a social degredation by subjugating the masses to their law. Most of western society is bound to the laws based on religious doctrine. Even if you do not practice these religions, you cannot escape the legal restrictions on which your bound to be a good Christian or Good Jew or good muslim.

It is self evident that most of the world's evils can be traced to this consequentually. Because we deny our will through legal justification, we create a rift between our ego and superego. We grow ever further apart consciously from our desires and as such, our mind begins to cave in on itself. You can find mental illness everywhere in our society. Schitzophrenia, Homosexuality, and a variety of other diseases loom over our heads because of these corrupt religions.


For the largest part of European, CHRISTIAN history, the one monotheistic religion which mattered in Europe was a source of great advance. The white, christian, man dominated practically the entire world 100 years ago, he obviously wasn't suffering too much restrictions from his own cultural background. In the 20th century, jews took over and muslims swarmed in Europe, and look where it is now compared to 100 years ago. Blaming all three monotheostic religions is silly.

fade,
Are you sure this pathologial mistrust and paranoia about the Jews is not merely a social structure which has been projected and is not part of our psych. ?
Seems like yout theory about the Holocaust only its the "Jews" and not the "Holocaust".

fade,Are you sure this pathologial mistrust and paranoia about the Jews is not merely a social structure which has been projected and is not part of our psych. ?
That is quite doubtful, cerberus. After all, I live in the midst of the Christian Bible Belt in one of the most patriotic and jew-worshiping parts of America. There are very few Jews around here too. However, I am ironically A.) an anti-semite B.) a postmoralist atheist and C.) far from being an American nationalist. If anything, it would appear that I should have come to exactly the opposite conclusions that I hold now, given my environment.

Seems like yout theory about the Holocaust only its the "Jews" and not the "Holocaust".
You should keep in mind here that my views are radically opposed to those in my immediate surroundings whereas your own views reflect the prevailing view of the Jews in your country. I would say that it is much more likely that YOU have been influenced by your social structure (and all its prejudices) than myself, for instance, you seen to start (quite irrationally, at that) with the almost a priori assumption that Jews can do no wrong whatsoever, that they are motivated by purely noble motives, without even critically evaluating whatever evidence may be available.

Why not. It's easier than blaming yourself for anything isn't it?

I blame myself for not being there to see the holocaust through till the last jew fell dead. :)

That is an assumption you make on me Fade based on your very limited knowledge A My self and my value system and B My life experiences.
Your judgement here Fade is about as far off as you can get.

There are very few Jews in my country.
The social prejudices and bigotery which are around me I have risen above and I don't carry this bagage , perhaps its something we have in common ?
Its a tall order to say that we are not influenced by our enviroment, in fact its impossible not to be.
Just because you don't hold with it does not mean that it did not to some extent shape and influence you.
For me growing up in Northern Ireland ,the complete and total ignorance of the society made a postive influence on me.

As far as Jews go I don't believe they can do no wrong , nor do I see them as being without sin , I see them as having the same potential flaws we all have.
I do not see them as being entirely good or entirely evil.
For my part I try and judge people as individuals and not as a ethnic or social group.
I wish the present Jewish Goverment could learn from their own past , but this may be luxury I can afford when I do not live there.
When you assume Fade that I think Jews can do no wrong you are a victim of your own self confessed prejudice.
To be prejudical , well its not rational. ( In my book any way ).

? Would your anti-semetic views influence your theory on the Holocaust ?
You mentioned in the "Sticky" that historians say they are being objective and neutral but they really arn't , this does seem to make your theory less than objective if not totally flawed , your own anti-semetic views undoubtly colour your view and distort the outcome completely.
In short Fade the "angle of the playing field" is pre-determined and the outcome is loaded.

>>>That is an assumption you make on me Fade based on your very limited knowledge A My self and my value system and B My life experiences.

I wouldn't say that, Cerberus. You have been here for a few months now. You have made numerous posts on this website which have given our membership more or less a clear picture of your views.

>>>Your judgement here Fade is about as far off as you can get.

I will simply point out to the gallery that the posts you have made here speak for themselves.

>>>There are very few Jews in my country.

There are very few Jews in my area.

>>>The social prejudices and bigotery which are around me I have risen above and I don't carry this bagage , perhaps its something we have in common ?

You seem to be implying here that racism and anti-semitism are pervasive in your area, that this is something that you have overcome. Now you said earlier that you lived in the U.K. I would say that if anything is the case here, your own views are quite reflective of the bigotry and (anti-racist/philo-semitic) social prejudices of your own social and historical environment. Now if this is not the case -- if the anti-semitism is the prevailing view in your area -- by all means correct me.

>>>Its a tall order to say that we are not influenced by our enviroment, in fact its impossible not to be.

I have not made the argument at all that we are not influenced by our environment. That would be ridiculous and nonsensical. I am simply pointing out how radically detached I am from my own social and historical situation. I am most certainly not the type of person you would expect to find in my area. My political views are not representative of my social environment in the slightest.

>>>Just because you don't hold with it does not mean that it did not to some extent shape and influence you.

I am sure that the area I grew up in has been quite influential upon me and I would never deny that. My racial awareness stems from years of personal experience interacting with other races growing up in the Deep South. The interest I developed in the Jewish Question grew out of trying to make sense of why there is such a disconnect about the 'truths' proclaimed about race in popular culture on the one hand and my actual experience on the other. That directly led to the question of how the world we live in today came about. And undoubtedly, my interest in history (which probably has much to do with growing up in the rural South) directly led to my awareness of how unique our own times are, as the world was seen just several generations ago quite differently. My own family background led to my interest in Central European philosophy.

>>>For me growing up in Northern Ireland ,the complete and total ignorance of the society made a postive influence on me.

I would say it was just the opposite for me. I was always quite aware of my own social surroundings, yet my interest in philosophy and history led to my heightened sense of awareness that things were not always the way they are now, that in the last two generations or so, there has been a radical social change in America, yet advocates of this change try to make out their own values to be universal, ahistorical truths. A good example of this is the discourse of The Holocaust. The picture we have today of 'The Holocaust' is quite different from the significance given to the topic in the 1960s. Why has there been such a change?

>>>As far as Jews go I don't believe they can do no wrong , nor do I see them as being without sin , I see them as having the same potential flaws we all have. I do not see them as being entirely good or entirely evil.

It is not my view that Jews are either good or evil, as I reject inate value altogether. At some point, I simply noticed how they love to camoflague and dress up their own narrow political interests (like fighting anti-Semitism), which benefit Jews more than other populations, in the trappings of 'morality', how they use 'morality' to beat down those they disagree with. They don't seem to be all that concerned about segregation in Israel or Israel's lack of racial and cultural diversity. Now why is that? Maybe its just because this 'morality' they peddle is a poison they distribute amongst non-Jews in order to weaken them, which would explain why they normally refuse to injest this poison themselves, since, as they say, its not 'good for the Jews'. Why is it so important to fight 'anti-Semitism'? Why not anti-Europeanism instead? Why is so much attention given to 'The Holocaust', so-called? Why not Pol Pot's Cambodia or Rwanda instead? Why was South African apartheid so horrible? Why not Israel's apartheid instead? When one begins to ask questions like that, in some places, one can end up in prison. And why would someone be thrown in prison just for questioning 'The Holocaust'? Simple. Because 'The Holocaust' is intimately bound up with a system of power relations and questioning 'The Holocaust' dogma poses a political threat to certain invested power interests.

>>>For my part I try and judge people as individuals and not as a ethnic or social group.

I have taken just the opposite approach. First, I try to judge the ethnic or social group, then I try to judge the individual. For me, the community exists prior to the individual and in fact creates the individual by imparting to the individual the ideas and concepts he/she uses to make sense of his/herself. The individual (a social being) is born into the community, not the other way around, as liberals would have it. The notion that people should be judged as individuals as opposed to members of their community (racial, religious, social, ethnic et al) is a radical break with all of preceding history that only came about in Christian Medieval/Early Modern Europe. Previously, every person had his/her natural place in a society (e.g., Helen of Troy or Thales of Miletus).

>>>I wish the present Jewish Goverment could learn from their own past , but this may be luxury I can afford when I do not live there.

One can see how anti-Semitism arises if one investigates the matter with an open mind. Jews (many Jews, not all) feel it an imperative to 'fight anti-Semitism' (because anti-Semitism is bad for the Jews) so they go about trying to deconstruct the distinctions that gentiles set up to preserve their own identities, even simple things like saying God in the pledge of allegiance or having a cross on a mere coin. Many Jews go about trying to dissolve these distinctions into universalism in order to weaken these gentile societies, to make them more hospitable to Jews for Jews can increase their power at the expense of others. In order to do this, they go about trying to disguise their own naked self-interested motives as 'morality' and this usually fools most people who are suckers anyway. In the process however, inevitably, Jews only end up antagonizing and irritating many of the more culturally sensitive gentiles when they do this. The process is quite similiar to that of a dog who scratches himself after being irritated by fleas or other parasites. The parasite is not a part of the larger host, indeed, it feels quite distinct from it. The parasite simply wants to alter the host, to suck off the host's energy, in order to advance its own interests.

>>>When you assume Fade that I think Jews can do no wrong you are a victim of your own self confessed prejudice.

They are so narrowminded and bigoted, so myopically blind to how they go out of their way to antagonize others, so self-absorbed in their own self-righteousness and hypocrisy that they cannot understand that when they go about trying to 'fight anti-Semitism' they only end up creating it, and of course, this suits many organizations like the ADL just fine as they live off of generating as much anti-Semitism as possible.

>>>To be prejudical , well its not rational. ( In my book any way ).

I would say that my views conform quite well to observation.

Fade,
Thank you for your open and frank reply.
I will make this very quick as its been quite a busy day and its a bite to eat and an early night as far as i am concerned.

Jews in my country , very few and in my own particular area even fewer.
( One family as far as I am aware ).
Racism may well become an issue in the future , as it stands N.I. has its own unique problems of politics / religion etc. The act of prejudice is just the same , only the identity of the groups change.
Prison for those who question the holocaust .
More to do with regulating the political ethos rather than the question itself , eg. don't want any Nazi party here.
I see little to gain by locking people up.

I fail to see how judging by " group" first can be positive , its the individual who is important , not what we judge or percieve them to be.
It would be easy on the strength of what you have said about your roots to sterotype you , it would be easy but totally wrong.
Enviroment to me goes beyond the physical , it includes influences like peer group , friends , home , etc.

The example of the dog with fleas , not one I would use myself.
My own experience is that there are any number of people who screw society and do it very well , none of whom are jews , all of them are white , all of them are dedicated not to doing a days work if they can possibly avoid it .

Within my own experiences I can think of some groups who behave in exactly this way ...getting peoples backs up , totally self centred and blind to the needs of others and to society in general , none of these folks are Jews.

Rasism or prejudice is nothing new all societies produce it , its part of human nature.
The worst racist remark I ever heard was from one asian about another , the same terms and remarks I had heard before used by " white against white ".
It does make you think how people think and why intelligent people abandon reason for something which is actually quite primitive.
I know we won't find much by way of common ground but thanks for your answer and your time , food for thought.

>>>Fade, Thank you for your open and frank reply.

No problem.

>>>Jews in my country , very few and in my own particular area even fewer. (One family as far as I am aware).

Jews are quite rare in my own area, the rural South. Hatred of Jews is even rarer, as there are simply not many Jews around here to hate. This is not to say that the behaviour of Jews elsewhere, which so aggravates me, is not also resented by community. The primary difference, however, is that most people around here tend to associate this with 'liberalism' as opposed to Judaism.

>>>Racism may well become an issue in the future , as it stands N.I. has its own unique problems of politics / religion etc. The act of prejudice is just the same , only the identity of the groups change.

So what is the prevailing view in your area with respect to racism and anti-Semitism? Do you live in a culture where racist and anti-Semitic views are both mainstream and predominant, or instead, do you live in a culture where anti-racist views have hegemony. If the later is the case, as I am sure it most likely is, then have you ever stopped to reconsider how your own society has influenced your beliefs?

>>>Prison for those who question the holocaust.

And why should a man be thrown in prison simply for questioning a dogma? I thought 'totalitarianism' was something for Nazis and Communists. How is this consistent with the 'freedom' doctrine? That is like saying a free society is a society in which you are free to agree with what the government says. How is that any different from the USSR or Nazi Germany? There is utterly no difference between declaring a dissident to be an 'anti-social' and throwing him in the Gulag than calling him a 'Holocaust denier' and throwing him in prison. Did you know the Allies burned more books during their occupation of Germany than were ever burnt under the rule of the National Socialists? Actually, the government of Canada burns all sorts of books if it manages to catch them being shipped across the Canadian border from the U.S. I would suspect much the same to be the case in the Federal Republic of Germany today.

>>>More to do with regulating the political ethos rather than the question itself , eg. don't want any Nazi party here. I see little to gain by locking people up.

Here we have a contradiction. A liberal society is a society whose raison d'être is the protection of individual freedom by establishing a neutral political system in which no one is favoured by the government over anyone else. That is clearly not the case here, as your government has ideologically constituted itself. As you noted, your society goes about regulating its political ethos by privileging some groups over others. That is precisely what Nazi Germany did.

>>>I fail to see how judging by " group" first can be positive , its the individual who is important , not what we judge or percieve them to be.

Allow me to explain. The idea that one should not judge a person by his community but that person as an individual comes from liberal political theory. Liberal political theory assumes that the individual exists prior to the community as a distinct and isolated unit, indeed, that individuals come together to form their communities, hence the social contract and the theory of individual rights. The problem with this is that first it is utterly ahistorical and second that it ignores the process by which the individual constitutes his/herself. The individual does not exist prior to the community at all. The community exists prior to the individual. The individual is born into the community and socialized by its mores and traditions. The community gives the individual his/her language and thus the very conceptual mechanism by which the individual constitutes his/her own personal identity. The individual is only able to think in such social terms. Thinking is not something that individuals do, as liberals assume. Thinking is something that communities do through the medium of language. So we should not rely upon the bankrupt a priori assumption that we should judge people as individuals rather than as members of groups, because as I have explained above, these groups create the individual in the first place.

>>>It would be easy on the strength of what you have said about your roots to sterotype you , it would be easy but totally wrong.

I have been highly constitued by my surroundings, obviously. My argument does not assume that original thought is impossible, only that it is quite rare since we are primarily social beings or herd animals. In any age, only a tiny minority is able to detach itself enough from the community at large and feel itself as separate. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with stereotypes either, as language is highly normative by its very nature. Language levels down differences into homogeneous stereotypes or ideal models.

>>>Enviroment to me goes beyond the physical , it includes influences like peer group , friends , home , etc.

Environment is for me first and foremost the symbolic universe of language. Indeed, I even go so far as to argue that language structures thought itself by imposing a socially and historically situated conceptual framework upon experience. Language is also the primary means by which the social order is dominated by elites.

>>>The example of the dog with fleas , not one I would use myself.

I like the example and here is why. Jews obviously feel themselves to be a distinct unit from society-at-large with certain distinct interests (reflected by the manner in which they organise themselves politically). Foremost amongst these interests is increasing Jewish power. Standing in the way of increasing Jewish power are barriers erected by their gentile host societies, especially anti-Semitism. Jews logically want to fight anti-Semitism because it benefits them -- socially, politically, and economically -- over other groups. A society with less anti-semitism, racism, and prejudice is good for the Jews, not because of any ridiculous 'morality' (which is merely an idol), but precisely because such an environment of tolerance best enables Jews to thrive. Thus Jews go out of their way to demonize anti-Semites and racists and this is entirely predictable if one assumes, theoretically, that Jews are primarily self-interested, like parasites. You see, Jews are like parasites because they have little, if any, regard for the damage they inflict upon the societies that host them. It does not occur to them to ask: is this good for the gentiles? Nor do Jews attach much importance to that. Also, keeping with the parasite analogy, Jews try to confuse their hosts in order to disarm them, just as a tick will try to numb its host before sucking its blood. They dress up their own parasitical, self-interested motives, as being good for gentiles. They suggest that gentiles deserve to be exploited because they are evil. They dress up their own interests in the clothes of morality. This is why 'morality' never seems to apply which it conflicts with 'what is good for the Jews'. Morality is simply something for the stupid shabbos goy. That has always been its purpose.

>>>My own experience is that there are any number of people who screw society and do it very well , none of whom are jews , all of them are white , all of them are dedicated not to doing a days work if they can possibly avoid it .

Elaborate.

>>>Within my own experiences I can think of some groups who behave in exactly this way ...getting peoples backs up , totally self centred and blind to the needs of others and to society in general , none of these folks are Jews.

Here is where we part ways. Unlike Jews, Europeans are notorious for sacrificing their own interests in the name of 'morality'. Many Europeans have actually come to hate themselves and their own culture because they privilege the well-being of non-Europeans above their own people. It is probably unprecedented in all or world history that a society would institutionalize discrimination against its own offspring in order to uplift ethnic or racial aliens from a condition of inequality. A similar example can be seen with multiculturalism, whereby Europeans willingly choose to marginalize and trivialize their own culture by reducing it to relativism with other cultures.

>>>Rasism or prejudice is nothing new all societies produce it , its part of human nature.

Xenophobia is widely seen by most sociologists as being a phenomena that exists in all societies. The degree to which Europeans have constructed xenophobia as being something evil, a crime even, says a lot about what is going on in their culture, specifically, the distorting influence upon European cultures by the presence of large alien populations.

>>>The worst racist remark I ever heard was from one asian about another , the same terms and remarks I had heard before used by " white against white ".

I am glad you brought this up. Take Japan or China for example. The notion that all cultures are somehow equal simply bewilders the Japanese. They do not understand this idea. This is merely a Western prejudice. Other societies, especially East Asian ones, are militantly protective of their own ethnic composition and would never tolerate the type of mass immigration that Western countries are used to today. When Europe is overrun by Asians and Africans, Asia will still be full of Asians and Africa will still be full of Africans.

>>>It does make you think how people think and why intelligent people abandon reason for something which is actually quite primitive.

But is it really primitive? Is it really irrational to privilege the success of one's own social group over others? I don't think so. Reason says nothing whatsoever about the goals we set for ourselves. The idea that discrimination is something wrong is nothing more than a European superstition no one else in the world buys into.

Fade,
Racism will probably increase in my own neck of the woods .
The white /white remarks , within N.I. context.
Religion and political id. taking the place of race etc, the same mechanisms involved.
Primative , I do think it is. We tend to be acutely aware of those who are different and it comes from this , man is basically a hostile individual and in terms of evolution is not long out of the trees.
We think we know it all but we don't.
I still don't go for passing judgement on ethnic groups , the individuals within any one group are totally different and to judge without knowledge of an individual goes against the grain. Its a bit like give a dog a bad name.
White folks not wanting to pay their way / screwing society.
Within UK benefit system there are a number who do so , they get those who deserve help a bad name. Benefit fraud is big problem.
I see this from time to time , rather sickening.

I am really very neutral were "Jews" are concerned and have no axe to grind against them , having lived in N.I. for a number of years I have had my fair share of ignorance , bigotery , hatred for hatreds sake , seeing children turnedinto engines of hate by stupid unthinking idiots , I could go on , you have no idea how much I detest this mind set and those like it.
This " blame the Jews" , YD does make a good point.

>>>Fade, Racism will probably increase in my own neck of the woods .

I am glad to hear that. We need to progress towards a society that is more xenophobic and self-conscious of its own cultural identity and historical mission.

>>>The white /white remarks , within N.I. context.

The Northern Ireland situation is one reason why I don't have much regard for Christianity and its superstitions.

>>>Religion and political id. taking the place of race etc, the same mechanisms involved.

Hmm. Ireland did not ever have a race problem until quite recently. The ethnic/religious issue has always predominated there.

>>>Primative , I do think it is.

The notion that we are 'individuals' as opposed to being members of our communities, that we are somehow equal to all other human beings is a primitive superstition that comes directly from the Ancient Hebrews. Any empirical observation of the world reveals nothing but inequality and difference. Racial equality can be observed nowhere. It is a metaphysical dogma held by the faithful.

>>>We tend to be acutely aware of those who are different and it comes from this , man is basically a hostile individual and in terms of evolution is not long out of the trees.

Evolution does not operate on the assumption that the strongest members of a given species would sacrifice their own interests to uplift the sick and the degenerate to a level of mediocrity, as liberalism and its 'morality' would have us do. Stronger types only emerge by adapting to their environment whereas others fail to do so, by imposing their will to dominate upon others. A progressive society is one that focuses its energies upon upbreeding itself to higher and higher levels, such as Nazi Germany, not a sick and disgusting country like the USA which desires to be colonised by the scum of the Earth, with all the ugliness and poverty that entails.

>>>I still don't go for passing judgement on ethnic groups , the individuals within any one group are totally different and to judge without knowledge of an individual goes against the grain. Its a bit like give a dog a bad name.

The groups create these individuals by imparting their language to the individuals that are born within their communities. All of these so-called individuals are actually immersed within a historically situated linguistic context they take for granted, especially in the Anglo-Saxon countries. Virtually every single concept these 'individuals' use to construct their own identities were imparted to them by other people.

>>>White folks not wanting to pay their way / screwing society.

I have never suggested there were not white degenerates. I agree with you on that point. There is no more equality within race than there is equality between races.

>>>Within UK benefit system there are a number who do so , they get those who deserve help a bad name. Benefit fraud is big problem.

Protestant societies tend to develop the notion that people are isolated, self-sufficient, distinct individuals when this has never been the case. In reality, we are highly reliant upon a complex set of relationships we establish with others.

>>>I am really very neutral were "Jews" are concerned and have no axe to grind against them , having lived in N.I. for a number of years I have had my fair share of ignorance , bigotery , hatred for hatreds sake , seeing children turnedinto engines of hate by stupid unthinking idiots , I could go on , you have no idea how much I detest this mind set and those like it.
This " blame the Jews" , YD does make a good point.

YD starts with the a priori assumption that anti-semites simply irrationally hate Jews for the sake of hating them, that Jews are entirely innocent, that they have done no wrong. That sounds precisely like what a Jew would say, actually. It is a metaphysical belief. Of course, for the Jews, they have nothing but the noblest intentions and honestly believe this, but they fail to distinguish between these 'noble intentions' of theirs and their own narrowly construed self-interests which for them are basically one and the same.

Yet this is all quite naive and I will cite my own situation since I consider my own anti-semitism to be a paradigm example of how most racialists come to hold anti-semitic opinions. Few of us even start out aware there is a Jewish problem. We almost always start out with the question: why? Why do we live in the type of society we do today which did not exist in the past? How did it come about? Who benefits? Who loses in the type of society we live in today? Who is out there promoting all the things we so despise? What motivates them? These are not questions a fanatic would even bother to ask, much less investigate, as an irrational fanatic does not need to investigate any matter to confirm his own self evident convictions. Anti-semitism actually arises from a cold, detached, remorseless, analytical investigation into contemporary history.

Over the time I've been here, I've seen people out-and-out saying that pretty much every problem is in one way or another caused by Jews.

Here's a question: After a country kicks the Jews out, and there are still problems, who gets the blame?

The idea of the Prostestant society , to me this is largely a myth. Uk has low church going figures , the church has ceased to be an influence for some time.
I still prefer to look at the individual rather than any gruop or socail identity.
It has always been my experience that its people who might do you a good turn or a bad turn , its the person who matters not what we percieve them to be either socailly or historically.
When you go down this road Fade you arrive at the "them and us" situation , with a raft of "everybody knows what they are like" myths , " they never wash" , " they are lazy" , "all they think about" , " money is all that matters to them".
In any country you go to were their is " traditional conflict" you will find a mass of " well known facts" which are toatlly untrue founded on fear , ignornace and little or no direct experience of the other " group".

I have seen this and I know it to be true based on my own experiences , "I have been there and worn the tee shirt".
This is not theory its fact , I have sen and experienced it.

Sinclair and YD don't make such invalid points as you think.
When Sinclair says kick out all the Jews and who will you blame then when the problems still exist , it holds water , eutopia does not exist and never will.
The problems placed at the doors of the Jews in 1930's Europe , had every Jew disappeared from Europe there would have been no cure.

As far as a Xenophobic society goes , I want no part of it. Living in N.I. was bad enough , religion and politics produced the same intolerance which you say would be good.
Not a mission fade , not a mission, again I speak from experience , the social and economic cost alone are too great.
The ideal might sound fine Fde , but living it is a totally different issue , don't always wish for what you want , often its not what you imagined it would be.
Fade talk of up breeding to enhance the quality of the nation , this master race does not exist , its another myth of the "them and us".
Its like that which Himmler was taken with chasing all over Europe / Asis for proof. I just have to shake my head with wonder , its something I just can't buy into..
Forgive my reflecting on my own experiences of having lived in N.I. but I can draw parrallels with your views on the "Jewish question" , for me its one which serves a purpose , but that purpose does not make a problme.
The problem serves a purpose , the same myths and ignorance was used to serve a purpose in ireland , it created a problem and then was used to justify it.

>>>Over the time I've been here, I've seen people out-and-out saying that pretty much every problem is in one way or another caused by Jews.

I have never argued that the Jews are the source of all our problems. I have simply pointed out that Jews have tendency to dress up their own narrow self-interests as morality, that they ruthlessly pursue their own goals and this often comes at our expense. I don't honestly see what is so controversial about that argument.

>>>Here's a question: After a country kicks the Jews out, and there are still problems, who gets the blame?

If all the Jews in this world were to disappear at this very moment, then we would still have many problems. I would argue, however, that our situation would be much better off than it is today.

The idea of the Prostestant society , to me this is largely a myth. Uk has low church going figures , the church has ceased to be an influence for some time.

The cultural residue lingers regardless of chuch attendance.

[i]

I have never argued that the Jews are the source of all our problems. I have simply pointed out that Jews have tendency to dress up their own narrow self-interests as morality, that they ruthlessly pursue their own goals and this often comes at our expense. I don't honestly see what is so controversial about that argument.



You could say the same thing about many groups. The ultra-rich, f'rinstance.

Some people seem to believe that certain behaviours are *bred into* Jews. Does the phrase "nation-wrecking hive" ring any bells?

>>>The idea of the Prostestant society , to me this is largely a myth. Uk has low church going figures , the church has ceased to be an influence for some time.

You are associating Protestantism here with active church attendance. This is an error and most sociologists would agree with me on this point. Protestant populations still cling to certain religious values long after they have given up believing in God. These values live on in traditions, mores, and attitudes. The same is true of most Europeans generally. They are simply degenerate Christians. They stopped believing in God but now only cling that much harder to God's morality. Secularisation was never completed in Europe. God has simply been replaced by the idolatries of humanism, egalitarianism, and moralism.

>>>I still prefer to look at the individual rather than any gruop or socail identity.

I will continue to point out that individualism is itself socially and historically situated. The notion that the one should judge a person as an 'individual' as opposed to his/her being a member of his/her community is a radical break with all preexisting history that only came about in Christian Europe during the Middle Ages. This belief is especially powerful in Protestant societies. It actually comes from Christianity yet most Europeans atheists these days have totally forgotten this. More on this here:

"But why was God's request necessary, since Abraham doesn't seem to have learned anything new from this experience? He had already learned, at least to some extent, that God keeps his promises. Actually Abraham has learned several things. First, he has learned that this new God, who keeps his promises, also doesn't want human sacrifice -- another major breakthrough in the eighteenth century B.C. More fundamentally, however, he has learned that humans have freedom and dignity. In the ancient pagan religions, human sacrifice would not necessarily be considered wrong, because humans were regarded as nothing more than pawns of the gods. But when one encounters a new God, who doesn't want human sacrifice, the implication is that humans have a much more important position in the cosmic order. Furthermore, Abraham has not just learned that humans in general have freedom and dignity, he has discovered that each individual human has a unique identity. Before Issac was simply a son, the bearer of the family line; after, he is a unique person, a gift from God. We are so used to thinking of each person as having a unique identity that we are unaware of how foreign this idea was to the pagan world. Individuals had an identity only as part of a group. In Homer's Illiad, individuals are always introduced in terms of their family line, as in "Agamemmnon, son of Atreus." It is only during the Middle Ages, as Christianity starts to become socially effective on a wide scale, that the concept starts to develop of an individual identity independent of bloodline, occupation, or geographical location."

Murray Jardine, The Making and Unmaking of Technological Society, p.192

>>>It has always been my experience that its people who might do you a good turn or a bad turn , its the person who matters not what we percieve them to be either socailly or historically.

As I pointed out to you, the assumption you are relying upon here is that individuals are fundamentally self-created beings. I utterly disagree with this analysis. No, these individuals cannot escape the facticity of their historical situation, much less the social context in which they are immersed. The concepts these individuals rely upon are imparted to them by others throughout their lives. These concepts structure how these individuals interpret their own experience and their own identities. These 'individuals' are really just artifacts of the culture that molds them.

>>>When you go down this road Fade you arrive at the "them and us" situation

This brings me to another point -- the presence of the enemy. There is something primordial about this idea, as it seems to be present in all cultures across time. In my view, the enemy is ever-present because the concept of the enemy serves a social purpose, specifically, we need enemies in order to understand ourselves, to throw our own distinctiveness into relief. I think, therefore I have enemies. I have enemies, therefore I am myself. Carl Schmitt once said that. I agree with him on this matter. This antipathy against the enemy is another artifact of Christianity and its ideal of cowardness. In heroic societies, there were few things that were more worthy of veneration than having a good enemy, or as you put it, a "them and us" situation. Warfare was not considered to be 'evil'. Indeed, it was glorious and invigorating.

>>>with a raft of "everybody knows what they are like" myths

This is another topic I disagree with you on. This hostility towards myths is a rather naive prejudice of European modernity. In reality, all societies have their own myths which they use to galvanize their populations into action. That includes our own. It was the genius of Georges Sorel to recognize this.

>>>" they never wash" , " they are lazy" , "all they think about" , " money is all that matters to them".

I fail to see what is wrong with stereotypes. Stereotypes are merely a way to normatize other populations that are different from ourselves, so in this manner, they are inevitable. Now some will say that stereotypes are wrong because they reduce the differences that exist within populations to homogenous units. I will simply reply by pointing out all linguistic concepts whatsoever do this. Language itself is brutally normative.

>>>I have seen this and I know it to be true based on my own experiences , "I have been there and worn the tee shirt".

But let me guess. You have moved 'beyond' all of this right? I disagree. You should put your own ideology and the manner you react to others under the microscope.

>>>This is not theory its fact , I have sen and experienced it.

Opinions -- the views of people you disagree with.
Facts -- your own opinions. :p

There are no facts, only interpretations.

>>>Sinclair and YD don't make such invalid points as you think.

YD starts out from the a priori assumption that A.) anti-Semites are irrational and their irrationality causes them to hate Jews and B.) Jews are harmless creatures who are simply persecuted by others. This, of course, is a stereotype.

>>>When Sinclair says kick out all the Jews and who will you blame then when the problems still exist , it holds water , eutopia does not exist and never will.

This would be a straw man argument since I have never claimed that Jews are the source of all our problems, much less that eliminating the Jews in their entirety would solve all our problems. I have simply pointed out, that if the Jews were eliminated, then we would be better off than we are today, and that is why I am for it.

>>>The problems placed at the doors of the Jews in 1930's Europe , had every Jew disappeared from Europe there would have been no cure.

You should really go back and examine some of the claims made against the Jews by the NDSAP. Many of their assessments were entirely correct. Hitler was many things but an idiot he was not.

>>>As far as a Xenophobic society goes , I want no part of it.

In other words, you want your own society to die and be replaced by a foreign culture set up by foreigners in your own country. A society that does not preserve its own identity perishes. Life goes on as it always has. Xenophobia does not end. The only thing that ends is YOUR culture.

>>>Living in N.I. was bad enough , religion and politics produced the same intolerance which you say would be good.

Tolerance is infinitely more destructive to a given society than intolerance. A society that adopts a neutral attitude towards its own existence is already suicidal. It is precisely analagous to a person who does not really care whether he lives or dies because other people will survive him. It is a dangerous attitude to adopt.

>>>Not a mission fade , not a mission, again I speak from experience , the social and economic cost alone are too great.

The social and economic costs of intolerance, as I pointed out above, are nothing compared to the social and economic costs of tolerance. Take South Africa or Zimbabwe for example. Where are these countries today? South Africa is infinitely worse off economically today than it was at the height of the international boycott. Zimbabwe has socially disintegrated and South Africa is not that far behind. Tolerating the mass immigration of Muslims into Europe produces nothing but a warzone.

>>>The ideal might sound fine Fde , but living it is a totally different issue , don't always wish for what you want , often its not what you imagined it would be.

I want to make Europe safe for bigotry and xenophobia. Bigotry and xenophobia are necessary if Europeans are to preserve themselves from the corrosive effects of humanism and moralism. A world of intolerance is by far preferable to the Eurafrica that is currently in the process of constituting itself.

>>>Fade talk of up breeding to enhance the quality of the nation , this master race does not exist , its another myth of the "them and us".

Actually, as I pointed out to you before, if there is one thing that cannot be empirically supported, it is the equality of all human beings and human populations. The belief in the equality of all human beings is a metaphysical lie that defies all observation. The only thing that exists is inequality and difference. And yes, mankind is no different from any other animal. It is entirely possible to breed stronger human races, just as it is possible to upbreed any other species.

>>>Its like that which Himmler was taken with chasing all over Europe / Asis for proof.

Here is an idea for you. Where is Sub-Saharan Africa today? I thought it was colonialism that was holding Sub-Saharan Africa back. I seem to recall all the glorious predictions of the anti-racists that once Europeans left Africa, it was rise up to equality with the rest of the world. Who here really has been discredited by experience?

>>>Forgive my reflecting on my own experiences of having lived in N.I. but I can draw parrallels with your views on the "Jewish question" , for me its one which serves a purpose , but that purpose does not make a problme.

Once again, I notice how you are so quick to pontificate on this issue although you have never studied it in detail for yourself.

>>>The problem serves a purpose , the same myths and ignorance was used to serve a purpose in ireland , it created a problem and then was used to justify it.

Its funny how you sit here and talk about the myths and ignornace of the Jewish Question, as if you were qualified to discuss the issue anyway, having never investigated the matter in any detail yourself.

>>>You could say the same thing about many groups. The ultra-rich, f'rinstance.

All groups are not equal. The 'ultra-rich' are not a people. The Jews are. There is quite a difference. The former do not feel themselves to be a unit as the latter does.

>>>Some people seem to believe that certain behaviours are *bred into* Jews.

I do not include myself amongst that number. For me, it has more to do with Jewish paranoia towards gentiles than anything else. That is historically and socially based.

>>>Does the phrase "nation-wrecking hive" ring any bells?

I like metaphors. That is quite an apt one for our subject.

Fade,
Only saying that prejudices share a lot common ground , the target group changes abut the reasons given for prejuduice are frequently remain the same.
My own experiences , I apologise if it seemed I was pontificating or going overboard , when you see the cost of it its easy to get annoyed by it.
Funny thing is prejudice within NI context , I know a lot of people from different backgrounds who would say the same as me , both those from Nationalist and Unionist backgrounds.

I have seen a lot of people burned up by hatred , it produces nothing and solves nothing.
You may know a lot of theory Fade , but in the real world its how you get along with people that counts and sooner or later you will may to work with people of different races and backgrounds on a professional basis.
If this does prove to be the case Fade how will you be able to do it ?

The idea of the Prostestant society , to me this is largely a myth. Uk has low church going figures , the church has ceased to be an influence for some time.

That is apparent, particularly when you compare what Britain was to what Britain is.

Why did Germany's atomic bomb programme fail? Why did America's succeed?
Heisenberg was sincerely trying to produce a bomb, however his critical mass calculation for U-235 was way too high. The correct calculation was made by two jewish former students of his who fled to England.