This notion came to me a few months ago: That this so-called "awesome" deity of the Bible whom the Jews, Christians, and Islamists worship and fear and DEMAND that the rest of us fear and worship is nothing more than a Jewish fairy or leprechaun! When you strip away the Biblical bull**** this God-Jahweh-Allah creature is actually about 3-inches tall, weighs about 1/2 ounce, but has a very BIG mouth.

It is a "Great and Terrible Oz" phenomenon with the Judeo-Christian-Islamist con artists working the smoke machine and levers. I say it's high time to end the mental SLAVERY!

Moreover, when you consider that guys with nuclear-powered fingertips like George W. Bush claim to hear the voice of this fairy and appear to believe in the temper tantrums of this evil little Jewish dwarf (the Scriptures) things start to get crazy if not downright scary really fast...

In no wise is He a faery. Faeries are European, not Jewish, legends. If you are rather trying to articulate that God, in the common sense of the word, is a Jewish superstition, there might be some truth to this, and this has never hitherto occurred to me. It seems that the modern conception of Deity is that of the Judeo-Christian Deity, and when a man believes in another sort of deity, not infrequently it is said to him (by the atheist), "Bah, you are just trying to define God into existence," or by the theist, "You are just defining something other than God as God." I am not saying this is bad, and I am not saying this is good. I am only saying that it is possible, that God in the modern sense has its origins in Jewish supersitions.

This notion came to me a few months ago: That this so-called "awesome" deity of the Bible whom the Jews, Christians, and Islamists worship and fear and DEMAND that the rest of us fear and worship is nothing more than a Jewish fairy or leprechaun! When you strip away the Biblical bull**** this God-Jahweh-Allah creature is actually about 3-inches tall, weighs about 1/2 ounce, but has a very BIG mouth.

It is a "Great and Terrible Oz" phenomenon with the Judeo-Christian-Islamist con artists working the smoke machine and levers. I say it's high time to end the mental SLAVERY!

Moreover, when you consider that guys with nuclear-powered fingertips like George W. Bush claim to hear the voice of this fairy and appear to believe in the temper tantrums of this evil little Jewish dwarf (the Scriptures) things start to get crazy if not downright scary really fast...

When the people of Medievel Christendom worshipped the God of the Old and New Testaments, they were not consciously worshipping the Jewish Tribal Deity "Yaweh." In the minds of most Jews, Yahweh is simply a "big Jew in the sky" (one often hears Jews state that "God is Jewish," making it clear that their vision of God is a very shallow and anthropomorphic one). Such a narrow, tribalist interpretation of the Divine is entirely alien to the Western mind. Rather, the Old Testament became cannonized and re-interpretted through the filter of the New Testament, which in turn was interpretted through a combination of European paganism and Greek metaphysics. Only in this form could the worship of "Yahweh" become pallatable to the European mind.

It is only the depraved and recent phenomenon of dispensationalist "Judaeo-Christianity" where "Christians" consciously worship the Jewish tribal deity. This form of the religion is utterly alien to the spirit of Christianity, and is basically better understood as a "Judaism for Gentiles" than as anything consistent with classical European Christianity in any form.

As for George W. Bush's nightly conversations with Yahweh, I am not sure whether these pronouncements are the genuine outpourings of a dull, drug-addled, and disturbed mind (after all, he's claiming all but prophet status), or if they are simply little morsels crafted for Christian Coalition consumption by his neocon handlers. I would bet on the latter, if only because the former option is rather terrifying.

Welcome to The Phora, Manitou.

When you strip away the Biblical bull**** this God-Jahweh-Allah creature is actually about 3-inches tall, weighs about 1/2 ounce, but has a very BIG mouth.

Did you get this description from watching South Park?

I wonder, how would you think that you can put God into one physical body- especially a three inch tall one. If He is so weak, why do so many people worship and fear Him?

Did you get this description from watching South Park?

I wonder, how would you think that you can put God into one physical body- especially a three inch tall one. If He is so weak, why do so many people worship and fear Him?
You could ask the same thing about any of the Gods so many people used to worship. From the volcano gods of ancient island-dwellers to the gods of Greek and Roman mythology, imaginary beings have long been worshipped and feared. Make no mistake: those primitive people who sacrificed human beings to "angry" volcano gods were every bit as certain of those gods' existence as modern day religionists are of their gods.

I do not rule out the possibility of a Higher Power existing, but the odds are extremely high that the gods of all "revealed" religions (including the God of the Bible) are imaginary:

-- The Bible and all other holy books blatantly contradict themselves, each other, and, most important, what is known by science. Mankind evolved from apes; his closest living relative is the chimpanzee, but there were many intermediate steps in the evolution as clearly shown by hominid fossils. Also, there is no "firmament" in the sky with floodgates that open when it rains; all geological and anthropological evidence rules out a global flood; etc.

-- The ancient Israelites had no concept of "hell" when they were supposedly given the 10 Commandments. They only believed in "sheol," a dark underworld where everyone went after death. God apparently never threatened them with hell as punishment for breaking the Commandments; rather, He threatened the sinners' children! As if it could be just to punish a child for the sins of his parents! It was only centuries later, when the Jews just happened to acquire the belief from the Romans and other cultures, that it was incorporated into Jewish teaching and Christianity. This clearly indicates that the concept of hell was fabricated by man, as anyone who understands the injustice of infinite punishment for finite creatures' sins can easily accept.

-- If God existed and wanted people to know it, then He would continue to act toward men exactly as He supposedly did in Biblical times: e.g., by speaking to individuals, raining down fire from heaven on particularly wicked cities, etc. These things never happen now, and they never happened before, either.

-- To explain all inadequacies in any particular religion with "God works in mysterious ways," etc., is to admit that one's beliefs make no sense whatsoever, since ANY belief can be justified by such words. If God is so mysterious, then how do we know anything at all about Him? How do we know He isn't going to send all fundamentalist Christians to hell for their self-righteous, "nanny-nanny-boo-boo, I'm saved and yer not" lack of compassion toward honest unbelievers? Maybe at the end of time only those who were willing to reject blind faith, think for themselves, and follow their consciences will be saved. Maybe the threat of hell for unbelievers -- clearly an unjust punishment for those who are guilty of nothing but uncompromising honesty -- is just a test to see who will allow his reason to overrule his fear of judgment.

-- What solid evidence is there that the God of any "revealed religion" exists? Nothing but the writings of superstitious ancient people. No one has any reason to think those men were inspired. To trust in those writings is to trust in men, not in God.

all geological and anthropological evidence rules out a global flood; etc.


I'd like to hear this, since nearly every culture on earth has some ancient tale of a great flood.

Perhaps I was not clear enough in my first post: When I described the "God" of the Bible as a Jewish fairy I meant it as a metaphor and NOT that such a creature actually exists. The notion of Jehovah-YHWH-Allah should be seen as a Jewish superstitious myth that has been foisted upon the rest of us for historical reasons that another member has explained.

While most of us would NOT claim belief in Leprechauns or Irish fairies, etc. why do we allow ourselves as a culture to be held captive by its Jewish equivalent?

The "fairy" metaphor is useful. It places Jehovah-YHWH-Allah in his rightful place within the pantheon of imaginary beings. A Jewish fairy should not be seen as having any more power or stature than any other peoples' fairies. The Bible god should be considered small and puny but with a BIG mouth. Something to laugh at and ridicule. A prop. A false front. A boogy-man. A deformed little "genius" who the power-mongers use to control our culture right up to the President of the USA -- either intentionally or because Bush is another FOOL who has swallowed the nonsense about Rachel and Moses and Abraham's seed.

And while it is true that the Hebrew religion has been brought into the European tradition there remains something alien if not downright nausea-producing about our culture's dominent religion comprised of bizarre tribal Jewish Biblical nonsense that is NOT OF OUR KIND.

And while it is true that the Hebrew religion has been brought into the European tradition there remains something alien if not downright nausea-producing about our culture's dominent religion comprised of bizarre tribal Jewish Biblical nonsense that is NOT OF OUR KIND.

First off, the Bible is not Jewish.

"This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians - that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. Judaism is not the religion of the Bible."
--Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser Judaism and the Christian Predicament p. 59

And exactly how is Christianity foreign to Europe? Even mainstream scholars who insist Christianity is Jewish in origin state that Christianity grew out of a form of Judaism heavily influenced by Greek teachings.

I've often heard that the values expressed by Christianity are foreign to Europe, yet theres no evidence for this.

“The rise of Christianity altered profoundly the moral texture of the late Roman world. Yet in moral matters the Christian leaders made almost no innovations. What they did was more crucial. They created a new group, whose exceptional emphasis on solidarity ensured that its members would practice what pagan and Jewish moralists had already begun to preach.”
--Peter Brown Late Antiquity pg.24

First off, the Bible is not Jewish.

"This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians - that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. Judaism is not the religion of the Bible."
--Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser Judaism and the Christian Predicament p. 59

Did the Jews stop celebrating Passover? :p That quote does not support the idea that the Bible is not Jewish, rather that Judaism is not completely based around the Bible. "Judaism is not the religion of the Bible". Fair enough.

“The rise of Christianity altered profoundly the moral texture of the late Roman world. Yet in moral matters the Christian leaders made almost no innovations. What they did was more crucial. They created a new group, whose exceptional emphasis on solidarity ensured that its members would practice what pagan and Jewish moralists had already begun to preach.”
--Peter Brown Late Antiquity pg.24

What is it they were preaching?

What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?

While I know some very good people who are Christian and I don't mean to personally insult any good Euros, my point remains that there needs to be a vast flushing of the Western religious tradition with an elimination of the alien Semitic turds that are floating in it.

IMO a good start in that process is to realize that "GOD" is not a large and powerful (and thereby threatening and scary) deity, but an evil little ficticious dwarf or fairy that should be mentally stomped out like a verminous pest.

That way lies freedom.

The work of the Fuehrer set us free from gods and men!

Marcion the first editor, compiler, of the New Testament ( Rome, AD 135-150) believed Paul the prophet had declared the Old Testament as fulfilled and concluded. Going a step farther, Marcion the real creator of the New Testament pronounced the Old Testament defeated and cancelled. He saw in Paul’s work only the basis on which to found the true religion of salvation, and he strove to cut everything Jewish out of it, down to the last detail. From end to end he was fighting nothing but Judaism. If he had had his way, the New Testament would have stood alone, without the evil corruption of Jehovah, Yahweh, the Demiurge, the Creator-God, whatever, together with the burden of a Jewish master race in a book written by Jews and for Jews..

Well, as we all know, the early Roman Church canonized the Old Testament, and it has corrupted Christianity ever since. One could say that the popularity of the New Testament, carrying the Old along in its wake, has given legitimacy to the so-called Jews of today, imposters for the most part, with no connection to ancient Israel, let alone God.

If the Old Testament had not been included with the New, and if the Khazar Kingdom had not converted to Judaism eight centuries after Christ, Judaism likely would have perished as a major religion.

The key is the word, “Judeo,” as in Judeo-Christian. I must agree with Marcion, the real creator of the New Testament, that the symbiosis with the Old Testament not only confounds but defeats the good principals of Christianity. In the end the Old Testament may prove to be the poison that destroys the message of Christ, giving final victory to the modern-day Pharisees--Zionists and their Christian Zionist syncopates..

-Z-

all geological and anthropological evidence rules out a global flood; etc.


I'd like to hear this, since nearly every culture on earth has some ancient tale of a great flood.


Most flood stories probably originated in the events surrounding the end of the pleistocene around 10,000 years ago. It was at this time that the glaciers covering Eurasia and North America began to melt and recede.

Others flood stories, particularly those in the middle east, are thought to have their origins in the black sea flood around 7,000 years ago.

While I know some very good people who are Christian and I don't mean to personally insult any good Euros, my point remains that there needs to be a vast flushing of the Western religious tradition with an elimination of the alien Semitic turds that are floating in it.

IMO a good start in that process is to realize that "GOD" is not a large and powerful (and thereby threatening and scary) deity, but an evil little ficticious dwarf or fairy that should be mentally stomped out like a verminous pest.

That way lies freedom.

The work of the Fuehrer set us free from gods and men!

I agree in the first of that, there does need to be a VAST flushing of Christianity, especially Catholicism. But this, for me, is not to change the belief in God and following Jesus.

Many people who say that they are Christian do not practice what they preach, like Catholic priests who molest children. It is those people whom I do not admire and they are the ones who should be stomped out. I can't believe the church tries to conceal many of these horrid occurences.

But, Manitou, Christianity in itself is not as bad as you think. It is not a life of cowering and fearing God. It is rejoicing in knowing that he is on your side and that he will protect you and love you, whatever happens. Bad things that happen in your life don't seem as bad because you KNOW that in the end it doesn't matter, as long as you are following Jesus.

I can relate to this personally. For the last two and a half years I have been suffering from bad depression and the only thing that makes me feel better is Jesus, and my faith has improved my life dramatically. If you want to try and destroy this faith for those of us who want to believe, go ahead and try. I'm afraid that too many people won't see it from your perspective and you will fail. Nietzsche said that Go was dead and predicted that religion would be abolished, and a long time has passed since then, but alas, he was wrong. The power of good will always prevail.

Nietzsche was no atheist, Tamoril. Some scholars of Nietzsche say he was a pseudo Gnostic. He often wrote of "eternal reoccurrence," i.e. reincarnation; Buddhsm he beleived was the best religion, though he didn't practice it.

When he wrote "God is dead," my take is that he was referring to modern Christianity, which he detested. To my knowledge he never disparaged Christ in his writings, though he did get after Paul.

Nietzsche was no atheist, Tamoril. Some scholars of Nietzsche say he was a pseudo Gnostic. He often wrote of "eternal reoccurrence," i.e. reincarnation; Buddhsm he beleived was the best religion, though he didn't practice it.

According to Robert C. Solomon, author of Living with Nietzsche: What the Great Immoralist Has to Teach Us states that Nietzsche wanted a return to pre-Christian paganism, or at least it greatly influenced his philosophy.

To my knowledge he never disparaged Christ in his writings, though he did get after Paul.

True. Nietzsche never really attacked Jesus, in fact he actually admired him in many ways. Nietzsche saw Jesus as a "free spirit". Nietzsche's attacks on Christianity are almost solely centered on St. Paul. I've have yet to see Nietzsche actually try to go after the Church fathers. He only makes a few one-liners at Augustine and only once makes references to a quote by Tertullian on sex. So Berdyaev was probably right when he stated that Nietzsche never really tried to understand Christianity in its totality.

Nietzsche lost his father, a Lutheran minister, when he was five-years old. He was raised by women with whom, if his writings are any reeflection, he felt both love and hate. He never married. He died insane, probably from overwork, at a fairly young age.

He lived a lonely, if not tragic, life. I've often thought he would have had a happier life if his father had lived, if he had followed in his father's footsteps and become a minister. But then, he wouldn't have achieved fame as a philosopher. He challenges the reader not so much to agree or disagree as to grow.

Nietzsche lost his father, a Lutheran minister, when he was five-years old. He was raised by women with whom, if his writings are any reeflection, he felt both love and hate. He never married. He died insane, probably from overwork, at a fairly young age.

He lived a lonely, if not tragic, life. I've often thought he would have had a happier life if his father had lived, if he had followed in his father's footsteps and become a minister. But then, he wouldn't have achieved fame as a philosopher. He challenges the reader not so much to agree or disagree as to grow.

Yes, and his on his tombstone was apparently written "the antichrist". Interesting nickname for a minister.

It is true that Nietzsche admired Jesus, but not for his religion, it was his ability to lead people and stand up for his beliefs. That is like a Jew admiring Hitler for his charisma, it doesn't really matter.

Nietzsche was no atheist, Tamoril. Some scholars of Nietzsche say he was a pseudo Gnostic. He often wrote of "eternal reoccurrence," i.e. reincarnation; Buddhsm he beleived was the best religion, though he didn't practice it.

I thought that Nietzsche promoted his own form of Nihilism??? :confused:

You ought to spend some time reading Nietzsche's work, Tamoril, instead of trashing the man. It would broaden your narrow-minded view of the world.

As far as Nietzsche is concerned, my opinion of him is largely shaped by Nikolai Berdyaev's assestment of him. Mostly that Nietzsche never really tried to understand Christianity and criticized it from a lack of understanding. Now it should be mentioned that Berdyaev speaks of this as Nietzsche's tragedy, for Berdyaev actually admired Nietzsche and much of his philosophy(at first this sounds ironic for Berdyaev was a staunch Christian). Berdyaev believed that much of what Nietzsche advocated(creativity and heroism particularly) could be found within the tenets of Christian doctrine. From reading Soloman's book, I could see that Berdyaev had a point.

As this site explaining Berdyaev's views states:

http://www.emory.edu/INTELNET/four_thinkers.html

Nietzsche was right in his rebellion against normative ethics and legalistic Christianity but he mistook it for Christianity as such, whereas Christianity appeals to creativity. God will judge people not only for their observation of law but for their creative self-realization.

Nietzsche was no atheist, Tamoril. Some scholars of Nietzsche say he was a pseudo Gnostic. He often wrote of "eternal reoccurrence," i.e. reincarnation; Buddhsm he beleived was the best religion, though he didn't practice it.

When he wrote "God is dead," my take is that he was referring to modern Christianity, which he detested. To my knowledge he never disparaged Christ in his writings, though he did get after Paul.

Nietzsche was as much an opponent of Christ's teachings as he was of Paul's. Nietzsche's teachings stand completely opposite to the Sermon on the Mount - in many of his writings he was explicit that "Loving thy neighbor," "turning the other cheek," and "do unto others" were exemplars of Slave Morality. I suppose there are some Gnostics (Alfred Rosenberg comes to mind) who have argued that these are not Christ's teachings to begin with but Paul's, but if that is indeed the case, what is their basis for knowing what Jesus taught?

As for whether Nietzsche was truly an "atheist," I suppose that depends on what is meant by the term. He certainly wasn't a materialist - he believed that "spirit" and soul existed outside of the material body. However, there is nothing in his writings to suggest that he believed in a deity that created man in his image, indeed his belief in "eternal recurrence" was largely motivated by the fact that an endless cycle didn't require an unmoved mover at any stage of the process. In this regard, Nietzsche was not even a deist, though I suppose some of his doctrines can be made consistent with some kind of pantheism.

I agree in the first of that, there does need to be a VAST flushing of Christianity, especially Catholicism. But this, for me, is not to change the belief in God and following Jesus.

Many people who say that they are Christian do not practice what they preach, like Catholic priests who molest children. It is those people whom I do not admire and they are the ones who should be stomped out. I can't believe the church tries to conceal many of these horrid occurences.

But, Manitou, Christianity in itself is not as bad as you think. It is not a life of cowering and fearing God. It is rejoicing in knowing that he is on your side and that he will protect you and love you, whatever happens. Bad things that happen in your life don't seem as bad because you KNOW that in the end it doesn't matter, as long as you are following Jesus.

I can relate to this personally. For the last two and a half years I have been suffering from bad depression and the only thing that makes me feel better is Jesus, and my faith has improved my life dramatically. If you want to try and destroy this faith for those of us who want to believe, go ahead and try. I'm afraid that too many people won't see it from your perspective and you will fail. Nietzsche said that Go was dead and predicted that religion would be abolished, and a long time has passed since then, but alas, he was wrong. The power of good will always prevail.

Tamoril,

Thank you for the measured reply. Yes, I have heard all that before from my "Christian friends" who have tried to convert me -- without success.

However, I have never been able to get to the New Testament. I get bogged down within the first few sentences, paragraphs of the Old Testament and end up thinking: "What kind of god is this monster anyway? I don't want anything to do with it! On the contrary, this THING is a wicked little evil demonic dwarf!"

For example: Any god that DEMANDS that I mutilate my genitals or the genitals of my male children is NOT a good or loving helper! It is a Foreskin-Fresser!

I keep the Bible outside on the porch. I don't even want it inside the house.

The Christians should have ripped the O.T. into small pieces and flushed it like someone else mentioned. However, as a rational American-Euro I still cannot understand why I would want to adopt a system of Semitic fairy tales under any circumstance.

Thank you for listening.

Tamoril,

Thank you for the measured reply. Yes, I have heard all that before from my "Christian friends" who have tried to convert me -- without success.

However, I have never been able to get to the New Testament. I get bogged down within the first few sentences, paragraphs of the Old Testament and end up thinking: "What kind of god is this monster anyway? I don't want anything to do with it! On the contrary, this THING is a wicked little evil demonic dwarf!"

For example: Any god that DEMANDS that I mutilate my genitals or the genitals of my male children is NOT a good or loving helper! It is a Foreskin-Fresser!

I keep the Bible outside on the porch. I don't even want it inside the house.

The Christians should have ripped the O.T. into small pieces and flushed it like someone else mentioned. However, as a rational American-Euro I still cannot understand why I would want to adopt a system of Semitic fairy tales under any circumstance.

Thank you for listening.

Sure thing. I also hate the OT. Being a Christian does not require you to read it, Manitou.

Baptist Christians like myself do not have to "mutilate" their genitals, either. That is catholics that you are thinking about. My advice would be- do not read the OT because it is crap, and don't be a catholic. The message of Christ lies in the New Testament, not the old.

You ought to spend some time reading Nietzsche's work, Tamoril, instead of trashing the man. It would broaden your narrow-minded view of the world.

I used to idolise Nietzsche, Zoroaster. I think that people who follow Nietzsche are more narrow-minded than Christians. Believe me, I've been there. It's a lot easier to be bitter and nihilistic than to forgive and love others.

I do agree with some of his work still, he makes very good arguments. But Nietzsche does not offer (for me, anyway) the key to happiness.

Sure thing. I also hate the OT. Being a Christian does not require you to read it, Manitou.

Baptist Christians like myself do not have to "mutilate" their genitals, either. That is catholics that you are thinking about. My advice would be- do not read the OT because it is crap, and don't be a catholic. The message of Christ lies in the New Testament, not the old.

I see now where you're coming from and while it does perhaps eliminate the seething filth of the Old Testament -- which is certainly a good thing -- it is still a place I could never go and remain intellectually honest to myself. I see the N.T. as an offshoot or continuation of the Old T. just like Islam.

Your version of the Semitic myth appears to be nicer and I will humbly grant you that but I could never believe in it.

Thanks.

If God is a Jew , as per the Bible ( his name will be on J.C's. birth cert.)
there will be a lot of people on this forum who will be up that Alaskan creek minus a paddle . :eek: :jew: :o

I see now where you're coming from and while it does perhaps eliminate the seething filth of the Old Testament -- which is certainly a good thing -- it is still a place I could never go and remain intellectually honest to myself. I see the N.T. as an offshoot or continuation of the Old T. just like Islam.

Your version of the Semitic myth appears to be nicer and I will humbly grant you that but I could never believe in it.

Thanks.

It is true that mine is perhaps a "diluted" version of Chrisitianity, as is most modern Western religion.

Manitou, as a Christian I accept that you don't want to be one. You are entitled to your own choices, as we all are. Each of us has our own path to go and perhaps a religious calling isn't for you. It is wrong (for me, anyway) to attempt to force anybody to follow my beliefs. Thankyou, at least, for attempting to see the situation from my perspective.

If God is a Jew , as per the Bible ( his name will be on J.C's. birth cert.)
there will be a lot of people on this forum who will be up that Alaskan creek minus a paddle . :eek: :jew: :o

If God was Jewish, that would mean God is human, or Jews aren't human.

Unlike some of you, I have no problems with Semites if they still exist or Jews or any race really. What I do hate with passion is the mono religions. If Christianity with its inane trinity concept can be called monotheistic. If someone wants to believe in Yahweh or whatever one God concept like Aten that is O.K with me. What I don't like is the physical manifestations like churches, mosques, synagogues, the signs "Jesus died for you" and hearing about it without asking by me. If people want to believe in Jesus go to some place discreet, I don't have to know. After all if you had a rash on your back you wouldn't be telling everyone or showing it to everyone. That is how I consider religion - as some sort of disease I don't want to know about. The sad fact is that religion does not for most believers make them better as humans or change their attitudes to a great degree, but it does foster lots of BS and sophistry.