Allies’ unpunished crime against Humanity:
MEMORY OF HAMBURG-HOLOCAUST! July 28th 1943


S’appressan gl’istanti
d’un’ ira fatale;
sui muti sembianti
gia piomba il terror!
Le folgori intorno
gia schiudono l’ale!
Apprestan un giorno
di lutto e squallor!

[The moments of fatal anger
are approaching;
upon their silent faces
terror already settles!
Around, the thunderbolts
are spreading their pinions!
They are preparing a day
of mourning and gloom!]
Verdi: NABUCCO

On Sunday, July 28th 1943 from 1 to 2 am British planes dropped gasoline, phosphorous, and explosive bombs on the Hamm and Hammersbrook residential districts of Hamburg, Germany to create a firestorm that engulfed a 5 kilometer wide area sending a 2 kilometer wide column of flames soaring 4 kilometers high which pushed superheated gasses a further 8 kilometers. To feed the 600 degree centigrade firestorm, winds reached 240 kilometers per hour dragging uprooted trees and people into the inferno. (Ref.: Caiden, M., p.4-50)
In oxygen deprived shelters people suffocated while clawing at blocked exits. On rubble strewn streets people met choking gasses, burning debris, and walls of flame. They scrambled to the Elbe or Alster Rivers writhing in pain from boiling asphalt and burning phosphorus.
Children were dragged into the flames or stuck to boiling asphalt. Thousands simply v a p o r i z e d. Many who reached the rivers died unable to stop the burning phosphorous.
For ten days from July 24th to August 2nd, 1943, British night and American day bombing completely demolished a seven kilometer wide area and severely damaged a 12 kilometer wide zone destroying 300.000 dwellings and killing over 100.000 people.
In cellars rescuers found shriveled remains and melted pools of glass, bones, and fat. Charred grotesque figures littered the streets.
Unrecognizable bodies were loaded into trucks and driven to Ohlsdorf cemetery in the northern section of the city. Here four mass graves each measuring 130 meters long and 16 meters wide were dug in the sandy soil in the form of a cross by workers assisted by a mechanical excavator. Truck drivers approximated the numbers in their loads before the unidentified bodies were raked into the pits. Each of the four graves held an estimated 10.000 bodies. (Ref.: Middlebrook, M., p.356-366, plate 40)
The bombing of Hamburg was over!
_____________________
For the entire World term “HOLOCAUST” means Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Hamburg, Dresden,Berlin, Piraeus, f a c t s no m y t h s!
For such crimes against Humanity no Nurnberg-Trial was for Allies! These crimes still remain unpunished and the world-criminals American-British still continue to kill around globe! Sorry to say, it’s upon the responsibility of these two countries to understand that they must be finally independent from the evil influence of international Jew. If they really want to show that they are respecting themselves!

Suppl. Of Attached

This is called "Total War". The Germans invented the idea of air-bombing of mostly civilian targets in the First World War.

This sort of thing is bound to happen in wars where the worker is just as important as the soldier. Yeah, it's wrong, but so were the night bombings of British cities in the Blitz.

And yeah, the people responsible for Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Tokyo, etc were never tried. This is because the winner writes the history books. That has always been the case, and probably always will be.

War is by definition unpleasant. Modern war is more unpleasant.

I agree that it is hypocrisy that those responsible for mass bombings of civilian populations got off, but such hypocrisy is usually impossible to avoid. And if the Germans had won, it would have just been the other way around.

Had Goring had the aircraft and means to bomb London or Birmingham as Hamburg had been bombed he would not have hesitated from doing so.

Also See Middlebrooks " Berlin raids" , "Peenumde" , "The Nuremberg Raid" ,
"Schweinfurt and Regensburg Raids".
All show how bombing was not one way traffic .
Nuremberg was a total defeat , Peenemunde was achieved at great cost , Scheinfurt and Regensburg was a failure.

Had Goring had the aircraft and means to bomb London or Birmingham as Hamburg had been bombed he would not have hesitated from doing so.

Also See Middlebrooks " Berlin raids" , "Peenumde" , "The Nuremberg Raid" ,
"Schweinfurt and Regensburg Raids".
All show how bombing was not one way traffic .
Nuremberg was a total defeat , Peenemunde was achieved at great cost , Scheinfurt and Regensburg was a failure.
Its not really fair to say the citizens of Hamburg brought it on themselves, of all parts of Germany the city of Hamburg was probably the most consistently( though no doubt this in part sprung from large scale socialist and communist sympathies) opposed to Hitler.

hamburg was bombed beacuse it could be easily found, had large scale industry and its water way made is easy to find on H2S.
It did not involve a deep penetration of German air space at a time when length of night did not favour the RAF and the range would not expose the USAF to massive fighter attack by the Luftwaffe.
For the people of Hamburg it was a terrible experience the destruction was almost absolute .

Did we not discuss this at lenght at the old Phora? I thought this BS talk about "Göring would have done more or the same had he had the correct planes" was already debunked back then. I see how sometimes debating issues is pretty worthless when one has already made up his mind about it.

Its revisiting old ground , but point remains that Goring was quite happy to bomb anything with what he had .
Had they not had to move the Luftwafe east to russia bombing would have gone on by day and by night.
The radio aids you mentioned that the Luftwafe developed to bomb accurately , RAF did likewise and marked more accurately.
Common to both night bombing efforts its impossible to be exact what was with miles of the target also got hit.
I agree the ground had already been gone over and there is little value in revisiting it.
With regard to hamburg , the target areas were easily found and bombing was accurate and overwhelming.
If Hitler could have brought the same power to bear on Central London he would have done so.
My mind is not set in stone , I look at the evidence and compare and contrats the Allied problems of night / day bombing to those of the Luftwaffe.
I am not convinced by the arguement that the luftwaffe bombed by any code of morals or with regard to law , they bombed to hit targets and to destroy the enemy will to resist and produce arms.
The Allied bombing did likewise , the only difference was they could drop a higher tonnage of bombs than the Luftwaffe who had failed by way of policy and resources to produce a heavy bomber programme until too late in the war and even then the product which came forth (HE-177) was not able to live up to its potential as a bomber.
My mind is not set in stone but I think its best to look realistically at what both sides did.
Both sides dropped bombs on industrial areas and urban areas , civilian populations sufferred the only regulating factor being who could drop more bombs.
Bombing was crude , ugly and was not going to win the war none the less both sides did it to the best of their ability.

<Sigh>
The main point Cerberus..was and is...that while the Germans had no Strategic Bombing wing like the Brits had out of Doctrine and thus did not create their medium bomber fleet with the idea of dropping their loads over industrial areas like the RAF had as a doctrine way before the war even started, that their objective was always a military one and thus a legal one by the Hague. It was not up until the Brits had zeroed in exclusively on the German civilian population as it began with Rostock, that the Germans tried to retaliate in the same fashion (Baedecker attacks).
Yes, the Germans caused before that civilian casualties on their bombing runs over England but they were collateral damage Cerberus...not the objective per sé...like the RAF did begining with Rostock and Lübeck.

The diference might sound silly but there is a huge world from one to the other.
Say you have a German Panzer Column directed to take a certain town...a combate ensues with the defenders where regretably civilian population dies under the Germna shelling...The Brit Tank column would have driven to this hypoctetic town with the sole purpose of shelling the civilian living quarters. See?

EYTYXEITE!
You are right, Ebusitanus! The point is the "target group".

¸óôùóáí ïé Èåïß áñùãïß Õìþí!

The British had adopted the ideas of an Italian writer (dammit can't remember his name) whose theory was that in future an army wouldn't be needed, only a huge strategic-bombing airforce that could destroy the morale of an enemy population in a matter of days.

This was, of course, BS, but the British, being an island nation that didn't want a large conventional army, felt that it was just peachy-keen.

The Germans would probably have been better off had they kept hitting RAF bases instead of hitting British cities.