Arrogant Jewish manipulator Dennis Prager is brazenly telling me just what being Christian is really about.


Prager actually has here the CHUTZPAH to pose as the defender of Biblical orthodoxy rather than a cynical seducer of Christians, trying to turn them into cannon fodder for Isra-Hell.

He really despises my intelligence so much that he thinks can't see through his act, that he only wants us Christians to support Israel against its ever-growing number of enemies, and otherwise he just despises and/or hates our guts.

Depressingly enough, I know that many of my fellow Christians ears will be tickled by this garbage, and they will consider this prick Prager as their trustworthy comrade in a struggle against those evil "secularists".


Listen to this crap! This is the very definition of sanctimonius Tartuffe-talk:


"As an American who fights to preserve Judeo-Christian values as America's primary value system and preserve Christianity as the specific American faith that embodies those values, I can only say this: the God that the 431 leaders of the Presbyterian Church worship is not my God, any more than the Allah of the Islamic fascists that Israel and America fight is my God."

"Many serious Christians ask, "What Would Jesus Do?" If Jesus were here, he would probably be at Israeli hospitals comforting fellow Jews who were deliberately blinded, paralyzed and brain-damaged by Jew- and Christian-hating Palestinian terrorists. He would surely not be with the Jews' enemies, among whom are now the leaders of the Presbyterian Church, USA"



http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39534




Presbyterian Church defames Christianity

---------------------------------

Posted: July 20, 2004 1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc.


I have argued in this column that the greatest sin is committing evil in God's name. As bad as the evil committed by secularists, such as communists and Nazis, has ever been, the most grievous evil is that which is committed in the name of God. For not only do religious evils harm their victims, they also do lasting damage to God-based morality, which those of us who believe in God and religion consider the only viable antidote to evil.

That is why Islamic terror is so evil. Not only because it targets the most innocent of people for death and torture, but because it does so in the name of Allah and Islam.

Incredibly, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) joins the list of religious groups committing evil. In the name of Jesus, it has called for the economic strangulation of Israel. They have equated the Jewish state with South Africa during apartheid and called for a universal divestment from it.

The Presbyterians are the first Christian church to do this, and, ironically, the divestment campaign came the very week that the Roman Catholic Church signed a document equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.

It takes a particularly virulent strain of moral idiocy and meanness to single out Israel, not Arafat's Palestinian Authority, or terror-supporting, death-fatwa-issuing Iran, or women-subjugating Saudi Arabia, for condemnation and economic ruin. One of the most decent societies, one of the most liberal democracies in the world, is fighting for its life against Islamic fascists who praise the Holocaust and publicly call for the annihilation of Israel – and the Presbyterian Church calls for strangling Israel!

Apartheid state? This Goebbels-like Big Lie, concocted by the world's anti-Israel and anti-American Left and by those who want Israel destroyed, is now an official doctrine of the Presbyterian Church. Israel is a nation whose population is one-quarter non-Jewish Arab, with the same rights, including voting and its own political parties, as Jewish citizens; a nation whose second official language is Arabic, the language of those who wish to annihilate the Jewish country; a nation that occupies a tiny sliver of land known as the West Bank only because Jordan, overwhelmingly composed of Palestinians, invaded Israel in 1967 in order to destroy it and thereby lost its ownership of the West Bank.

As an American who fights to preserve Judeo-Christian values as America's primary value system and preserve Christianity as the specific American faith that embodies those values, I can only say this: the God that the 431 leaders of the Presbyterian Church worship is not my God, any more than the Allah of the Islamic fascists that Israel and America fight is my God.

The Bible that these Presbyterians read is not my Bible.

The religious values that these Presbyterians hold are not my religious values.

This is not a difference about immigration policy, affirmative action, taxation, bigger or smaller government, welfare policies, gun control, or a myriad of other moral issues over which decent, God-fearing people can disagree.

This is one of the morality-clarifying issues of our time. To single out Israel for economic strangulation while that good nation fights for its life is an act of such immorality that holding that view precludes one from the title "good" or "God-fearing," for if they are true to God, I am false to Him. If they are good, I who support Israel am bad. If their Bible teaches them to strangle Israel and support Yasser Arafat, I am guided by a different Bible.

They have drawn a line. It is now time for good people, Presbyterians specifically, Christians generally, to distance themselves vigorously and publicly from this morally sick church. And it is time, once again, for Jews to realize that the enemies of the Jews in our day are to be found on the Christian Left while their friends are far more often on the Christian Right.

Many serious Christians ask, "What Would Jesus Do?" If Jesus were here, he would probably be at Israeli hospitals comforting fellow Jews who were deliberately blinded, paralyzed and brain-damaged by Jew- and Christian-hating Palestinian terrorists. He would surely not be with the Jews' enemies, among whom are now the leaders of the Presbyterian Church, USA.


Petr

This guy writes about Jewry in virtually every single one of his articles. Me and Robin were laughing about this fellow just the other day.

I was looking for this article a while ago, and Robin told me to look among the writings of this guy. What I saw was mindnumbing, but this statement here really tops it.

How can you claim to be against Jewish manipulators like this when you yourself are a jew? Anyone who spreads Christianity is spreading Jewry (yes, I know this is not the correct word). If you are a Christian, you have many Jewish beliefs, but more importantly you have Jewish morals and ideals. How can you claim to be against the Jews when you are working for them?

Christianity is far bigger than those evangelical dumbasses. I have heard people say that 'Christianity is Judaism' nonsense countless times, but I never saw anyone defend their claim with intelligence. If you think you can defend this thesis, go ahead.

The Presbyterians are in the Axis of Evil!

Christianity is a form of Judaism just as Presbyterianism is a form of Christianity. It is just a sect of Jews who believe Christ was the messiah.

- "If you are a christian you have many jewish beliefs but more importantly you have jewish morals and ideals."


Here's a quarter, call someone who cares.


Petr

Christianity is a form of judaism

The Jews do not agree.

Would you care to elaborate on that thesis now, please, Finality?

Christianity is a form of judaism just as Presbyterianism is a form of christianity. It is just a sect of jews who believe christ was the messiah.

Let's look at the facts. By 57 AD, most Christians were Gentiles. By 70 AD, Christians were banned from entering Synagouges by Jewish authorities. By 132 AD, the Roman authorities acknowledged Judaism and Christianity were two separate religions. If Christianity is a form of Judaism, it started losing its Jewishness within 20 years of the death of Jesus. Yet, if it started losing its Jewishness within that short a space of time, it clearly wasn't that Jewish to begin with!

Christians are more unwitting agents of the Jews than actual Jews. They believe in a Jewish-based faith and therefore are Jewish. I really don't see how this needs much elaboration.

Care to back your assertions with facts, Finality? The Church was one of the biggest persecutors of the Jews in history.

I've asked him to elaborate twice already, without much result.

See, Christians who engaged in pogroms, expulsions, forced conversions, and killings of Jews were actually agents of the Jews because Jews wanted all of those things so that they can feel sorry for themselves. Notice how Jews always get uppity if there aren't any pogroms, expulsions, forced converstions, or killings? That's their way of trying to tell their agents that they need a little attention.

Let's have a pogrom in this forum, I think it'd be fun, we could get to know each other better in between 2 sessions of stoning jews.

"Judeo-Christian" is a fraudulent concept. (http://www.thephora.org/showthread.php?t=799&highlight=judeo-christianity) There are major conceptual differences between Christianity and Judaism. The raison d'etre of Judaism disappeared with the death and resurrection of Christ, with the result that Judaism has devolved into ethnic nationalism.

The Jewish faith as practiced by observant Jews might contain many positive ideas shared by other religions, It also borrowed a lot from other religious systems: for instance, sayings of Christ were imported into Mishna and ascribed to Hillel the Elder (according to Niebuhr). However, it is based on troublesome metaphysics, and metaphysical level survives even the present low level of Jewish religiosity. According to its teaching, the One and Only God created This One and Only World, and remained totally separated from the World. It is stressed by the Cabalist term Zimzum, Contracting Divinity; which holds that God's withdrawal from the meta-world leaves some ‘meta-space' to the Material World. God-less World is the necessary partner of Other-Worldly God. Thus the immanent World is cruel and ruthless, a place of eternal warfare, while God is transcendental and unreachable. ‘There are no prophets', ‘God can not intervene in our decisions', ‘the Law is given to us and God can't change it' – these maxims effectively create a Godless world. Sure, God exists, but he does not manifest Himself.

In Christian faith, Christ and His Mother bridged the World-God divide by His Incarnation, and brought in Compassion and Mercy. Since then, this World is full of the Light of Christ that is a Divine Light. People became brothers-in-Christ, His soul unites them, and an offence against a fellow man is also offence against Christ. (I describe the ideal, paradigmatic metaphysics of Christian faith, as different from reality as the scheme of the engine in your manual differs from the real engine of your five-year-old car).

In the Godless world of Jewish metaphysics there was an island of light, [the People of] Israel, crowned by the Torah. ‘Israel' of the Jews corresponds to ‘Christ' of the Christians. The relationship between the people of Israel and themselves is brotherly, for they are one family (descendents of Jacob), and they recognise this spark of light in each other. It is apparently similar to the brotherhood-in-Christ, but metaphysically quite different, for while (in Christian metaphysics) every son of Adam and Eve is entitled to the Light of Christ, in Jewish metaphysics other people, non-Israel, are absolutely God-less, all ‘thinking beast'. In some esoteric Jewish teachings non-Jews are denied even their descent from Adam. There is no way to transform a non-Israel to a member of Israel, for Jewish conversion is but the correction of an error: certain Israelite was by mistake born into a non-Israelite family, and his conversion is but the public recognition of this error.

See, Christians who engaged in pogroms, expulsions, forced conversions, and killings of Jews were actually agents of the Jews because Jews wanted all of those things so that they can feel sorry for themselves. Notice how Jews always get uppity if there aren't any pogroms, expulsions, forced converstions, or killings? That's their way of trying to tell their agents that they need a little attention.

So by that theory, did the Jews also have an influence in the Holocaust?

Of course. The Holocaust was the best thing to happen to world Jewry in a long time,

Care to back your assertions with facts, Finality? The Church was one of the biggest persecutors of the Jews in history.


The jews prospered in Europe as nowhere else. They prospered because European gentiles allowed them to, unlike in Arab countries, who as peas in the same pod fully understood jewish tribalism and dealt with it accordingly by nearly complete exclusion.

Didn't Jews live peacefully in the Arab countries until this whole zionist thing started? Granted, they never achieved the same potential for mischief as in Christian countries.

Peaceful and gaining control are two different things. Kevin Macdonald goes into the subject in depth.

Don't worry Finality. You're right. People on this board like to gang up on someone all at once, fairly often (notice how the women come in later in the verbal assualts, to make sure they're on the winning side- obviously the weaker sex).

Besides, we've had this debate before.

Not only is Christianity a perverted form of prophecy-fulfilled Judaism, it is pretty weak. Hell, the architects of 'The Bible' put it together over 300 years after Jesus died and threw out a lot of material that was part of several Christian sects' holy texts that wasn't deemed important or fitting for the standardized 'holy book'. The council of nicea threw around contradictions and declared them church policy. The Germanic hordes were converted through usury (chieftans were converted who then converted the tribe) or were converted with the ultimatum of baptism or beheading. A lot of people credit Christianity with the grand achievements of Western Civilization; the architecture, the music, the paintings, etc But I'm positive these artistic manifestations would have come about somehow without Christianity- they are part of the European will and 'spirit'. Regardless, Christianity = teh Judaism = pwn3d by its own historical context. It's nothing short of an irrational neurotic illness. Oh so the church was the 'largest persecutor of the Jews'? Wasn't it because those Jews wouldn't accept Jesus Christ as King and messiah like all of the good gentiles? They were not persecuted for being Jews by blood, they were persecuted for not accepting jesus christ as their personal savior. WWJD? Who gives a ****, he influenced the construction of the greatest mass mental defect in human history.

The jews prospered in Europe as nowhere else. They prospered because European gentiles allowed them to, unlike in Arab countries, who as peas in the same pod fully understood jewish tribalism and dealt with it accordingly by nearly complete exclusion.

I think this is a bit of a simplification. To my knowledge the Yhids were not singled out in Arab society. They simply fell into the same category as Arab Christians- the dhimmitude that Zhid Republic goes on about.

Edit note:

Furthermore, critiquing Christianity as "soft" on Jews is particularly ironic. It was the enlightenment and "progressive" liberal denominations that allowed the Jews outside their ghetto and into positions of power.

The jews prospered in Europe as nowhere else. They prospered because European gentiles allowed them to, unlike in Arab countries, who as peas in the same pod fully understood jewish tribalism and dealt with it accordingly by nearly complete exclusion.

Actually, the Jews traditionally done pretty well in Muslim countries throughout history.
We just have to look at Iberia, where the Jews basically opened the gates of many cities to the Moors (something which is still recounted in several Spanish festivals). They were also given key administrative positions in many Spanish towns under the Moors.
It was the Christians during and after the Reconquista who expelled the Jews.

The Jews only started to do really well in the 17th-18th century when Liberalism and Secularism freed the Jews from their Ecclestiastical penalties.
Refer to the countless edicts issued by Popes and Church councils stating that Jews may not have Christian servants, bemoaning the fact that Jews in some places were enjoying the same rights as Christians, branding them with various epithets including (Christ-Killers, perfidious bandits, eternal pests of the universe,etc), stating that they should know perpetual slavery for their crimes, ad nauseum
The French Revolution and all other anti-clerical revolutions and processes have benefitted the Jews no end, hence why they have always been hostile to the Church and supported such movements which curb ecclesistical power


The false premise that Christians are somehow doing the work of the Jews is absurd. It is those who are Anti-Clerical who are their dupes (and yes, unfortunately that includes many within the Church itself these days)

The jews prospered in Europe as nowhere else. They prospered because European gentiles allowed them to, unlike in Arab countries, who as peas in the same pod fully understood jewish tribalism and dealt with it accordingly by nearly complete exclusion.

Jews were more prosperous under paganism than under Christianity. In fact Im just reading how Julian the Apostate just in order to piss off Christians helped fund the building of synagouges and training of rabbis and other jewish scholars throughout the empire. He even tried to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.

"Paradoxically, the very same Rome that was now bent on crushing the Jews was largely responsible for their survival. However Christian the empire may have become, it never quite eradicated many of the legacies of its Latin past. Paramount among these was the Roman reference for law and precedent, which dictated the right of the Jews to live as Jews with their own judges, teachers, and institutions."
--John A. Garraty, Peter Gay The Columbia History of the World pg.432

Concerning Jews living under Muslim rule here are some passages from Kevin Macdonald’s “A People That Shall Dwell Alone”.

The Jews were the only ethnic group to survive intact after the upheavals that occurred at the end of antiquity….Moreover, Christianity steadily disappeared in parts of the Arab empire, but flourishing Jewish communities remained even after Jews were relegated to a subservient, humiliated status. Pg. 87

The Jews were also viewed as indispensable to the Muslim rulers of Spain, even during periods characterized by considerable anti-Semitism. Fischel notes that despite many de jure restrictions on Jews during the ‘Abbasid caliphates, Jews were utilized in the civil services where their services were indispensable, especially in the roles of physician and banker. Pg. 203

Brief mention should be made regarding Jewish competition with gentiles in the Muslim world. Stillman (1979) notes the exclusion of Jews from a wide range of economic activities by Muslim guilds in medieval Morocco and from government service in 14th-cnetury Egypt.
In Morocco, Jews were restricted to certain crafts and money lending, which were prohibited or viewed negatively by Muslims for religious reasons, and Sephardic Jewish artisans formed their own guilds and professional societies there. A commentary on the Jews of Tunis in the late 19th century notes that Jews were displacing Arabs in trade and industry because they were protected by the authorities. Their newly acquired status enabled the Jews to successfully compete with the native Arab population and resulted in fear and jealousy by the displaced Arabs. “This fear and jealousy is added to the hatred of centuries, and the old ‘Dshifa, ben Dshifa’ (carrion, sons of carrion), is still the usual designation when they speak of Jews”. Pg 204

We shall see below that Jewish intelligence appears to be lower in groups deriving from Muslim societies. The hypothesis elaborated below is the extreme anti-Semitism of Muslim societies actually prevented the flourishing of a highly literate Jewish culture in which intellectual ability was a key to social and reproductive success, with the result that the average IQ of Jews from these areas is lower than among the Ashkenazim. Pg 294

Israelis originating from Middle Eastern countries where Muslim was the dominant religion are overrepresented among the lower classes in Israel, with high rates of illiteracy among the parents, low levels of formal education, etc pg 298

…there was a general decline in Jewish fortunes in Muslim lands from the late Middle Ages to the 20th century. While at the beginning of the 16th century there is evidence for a highly literate Jewish culture in the Ottoman Empire, this culture gradually disappeared after the 16th century, so that from the mid-18th century until the intervention of the European powers in the 20th century, there was “an unmistakable picture of grinding poverty, ignorance, and insecurity” (Lewis 1984, 164) among Jews in the Muslim world. In the earlier period, Jews were prominent as physicians and in trade, commerce, and manufacturing. As in Western Europe, Jews were also deeply involved in finance and tax farming. Interestingly, this flourishing Jewish culture came at a time when Jews formed the ideal intermediary between the alien Ottoman elite and the subject populations. Jews were favored as intermediaries over Christians because there was no possibility of collusion with the Christian enemies of the Ottoman state. pg 300

Yes, Kevin McDonald seems to depict a failry accurate picture. From these passages we can see that despite some local conditions, the Jews were stil an important component in Muslim societies:-


]The Jews were the only ethnic group to survive intact after the upheavals that occurred at the end of antiquity….Moreover, Christianity steadily disappeared in parts of the Arab empire, but flourishing Jewish communities remained

The Jews were also viewed as indispensable to the Muslim rulers of Spain ......Jews were utilized in the civil services where their services were indispensable, especially in the roles of physician and banker.

Jews were favored as intermediaries over Christians because there was no possibility of collusion with the Christian enemies of the Ottoman state.



Here, we can see that the declining fortunes of the Jews were halted by modern, liberal, secular European societies :-

so that from the mid-18th century until the intervention of the European powers in the 20th century, there was “an unmistakable picture of grinding poverty, ignorance, and insecurity” (Lewis 1984, 164) among Jews in the Muslim world.

He also mentions Jews being involved in finance and tax "farming" in Western Europe in earlier times as below. No doubt this is true, but considering the constant warnings about the Jews in European kingdoms from the Church, we have to see this as being the decisions of the secular authorities against the advice of the Church


As in Western Europe, Jews were also deeply involved in finance and tax farming.

- "The jews prospered in Europe as nowhere else. They prospered because European gentiles allowed them to, unlike in Arab countries, who as peas in the same pod fully understood jewish tribalism and dealt with it accordingly by nearly complete exclusion."


Mostly in the NORTH-WESTERN Europe.

In the Christian Eastern and Southern Europe exclusionist tendencies were also strong - do the terms "Pale of the Settlement" and "limpieza de sangre" say anything to you?


I would brazenly claim (as does Yggdrasil) that any foolishly-trusting carelessness that Nordic Europeans have dealt Jews with is more likely due to their own evolutionary defects, instead of Christianity.


(Also, in the Middle East, sizable Christian communities fully participated with the Muslims in the exclusion of Jews from the mainstream society, even when rivalling each other:


"They hate one another. The Sunnites excommunicate the Shiahs and both hate the Druzes; all detest the Ansariyyehs (the Alawites) ; the Maronites do not love anybody but themselves and are duly abhorred by all ; the Greek Orthodox abominate the Greek Catholics and the Latins; all despise the Jews."

Isabel Burton, The Inner Life of Syria, 1875."



Petr

As usual Idi Amin doesnt know what the **** hes talking about and I refuted most if not all those arguments in previous debates. How the weed coming these days? :rolleyes: