How many people would it take to overthrow the US government, and how could such a thing be accomplished?

This thread is going to get the site in trouble.

Only took a few jews to take it.

This thread is going to get the site in trouble.

You can be assured that this site is already being monitored.

Only took a few jews to take it.

Good one. :D

Damn, your poll has been up for less than an hour, mine has been up for more than a week, and already you have more votes on yours :s.

Fewer than 1 million.

1 to 2 million, but they have to be in the right places.

Do you believe Gramscian tactics could lead to the overthrow of the US government?

Do you believe Gramscian tactics could lead to the overthrow of the US government?

Yes. But such tactics never lead to a quick, clean coup in which the government is replaced overnight. Instead, there will be a more gradual transformation, cultural and then political, possibly followed by a bloody climax in which the new élite consolidates its power.

Let me clarify then. How many people and what sort of tactics for a quick, relatively clean coup.

None. The federal government would send all of its armed forces to destroy a rebellion. The people will never successfully overthrow the US government. Not even with our fancy 2nd amendment. The people do not have tanks and bomber aircraft.

I honestly believe that if 5 million people all converged on Washington at once for the purpose of overthrowing the government, it would be powerless against them. The US military and the majority of the populace would not be unified enough or motivated enough on the response necessary to stop such an army.

The revolution would probably be more effective if its stated purpose was the simple abolition of the federal government rather than its overthrow and replacement. Another alternative is secession by one or more states and at that point, the house of cards would probably tumble.

There has been a huge cultural shift since the days when the government could just issue an edict and everyone duly joined the military to kill whoever the government said to. Americans no longer have the stomach for such fights. Thus, a very motivated army, and I think it would take at least 5 million, would be able to secure the government's abolition, particularly once it became clear to people that things would continue pretty much as they had before, with the exception that they will have more take home pay.

None. The federal government would send all of its armed forces to destroy a rebellion. The people will never successfully overthrow the US government. Not even with our fancy 2nd amendment. The people do not have tanks and bomber aircraft.
If the movement trying to achieve this is large enough, the same thing might happen as what happened in Romania, the army refused to shoot at the crowds there.

If the movement trying to achieve this is large enough, the same thing might happen as what happened in Romania, the army refused to shoot at the crowds there.

Yes. Same thing happened in the Phillipines. I also recall doing some research a number of years ago, and reading of an incident in the Cuban Revolution, where soldiers were chasing a group of revolutionaries down the street. A group of butchers emptied out from a local shop and stopped the soldiers at knifepoint. The soldiers just walked away.

As niccolo has pointed out though, for things to get to that point the populace has to have lost all faith in their government, such that it cannot even command the loyalty of its military. The US is a long way from that point, unless we get a currency crisis from SS and Medicare transfer payments.

5 million plus, because you would need a large base of support.

Steam, are you some sort of southern nationalist? Just curious.

Monitored of course, but this kinda talk leads to actual fed survelliance and possibly a trumped up charge( RICO) or framing, tax audits etc.

unless we get a currency crisis from SS and Medicare transfer payments.

If the US government last to that point its as certain as the sun rising tomorrow.

Let me clarify then. How many people and what sort of tactics for a quick, relatively clean coup.
Ill take the 5th...

Steam, are you some sort of southern nationalist? Just curious.

You might say. I'm certainly not an Amerrkin nationalist.

I think my nation's problems started when they replaced the old Articles of Confederation and established a federal government. The solution is to dismantle the federal government.

Monitored of course, but this kinda talk leads to actual fed survelliance and possibly a trumped up charge( RICO) or framing, tax audits etc.

Hide under your bed then.

I would say that far fewer than 1 million would be necessary, but of course the more, the better. The main problem such an insurgency would face is that of secure communication. Without a means of communicating securely, the only common objective would be "shoot all government forces on sight."

None. The federal government would send all of its armed forces to destroy a rebellion. The people will never successfully overthrow the US government. Not even with our fancy 2nd amendment. The people do not have tanks and bomber aircraft.This is a commonly-held myth, but it doesn't hold up at all. Tanks are nearly useless in a guerrilla war, and bomber aircraft are completely useless. This is especially the case when a government is fighting a war on its own turf, since government employees and even government thugs are living literally side-by-side with the guerrillas. How is the federal government going to bomb American cities? How do you think the feds would feel about bombing the very locations in which they and their families live and work? And how would it help the government to damage the very infrastructure on which so much government power depends?

Remember what happened with the DC snipers? Look at how much trouble just two people were able to cause. Why didn't the government use attack helicopters or artillery to flush them out? For the very same reason that they won't be able to use such heavy weapons to flush out revolutionaries: it simply won't work.

If a revolution ever broke out, no one with a badge or a uniform would be safe unless he decided to live inside an armored vehicle for 24 hours a day. The guerrillas would blend into the people and strike at will. The trouble the US military is having with guerrillas in Iraq right now is NOTHING compared to the trouble they would have in dealing with a domestic uprising in the US.

When Ceaucescu's regime fell in 1989, he ordered the army and secret police to shoot at the protestors, the secret police did, the army sided with the people...

I think the only possible chance for an uprising to succeed in the US is by taking action on state-level. It's better to fight alongside people you know from your community rather than having to gather millions of strangers from all over the country including, inevitably, thousands of government collaborators, anarchists, lunatics, etc.

If you fight for the control of your state, there won't be the need of gathering millions of armed men. All you will need is a climate of widespread discontent and opposition to the government among the local population so that they won't listen to the media's denunciation of the uprising and won't just sit by while the federal and state troops shoot their men.

Of course, not all states can be saved, but it's still better than fighting for the whole country solely against the federal government.

It can be done by one great man, an infantry officer, who gathers half a dozen good men around him. This group cuts out its regiments and occupies the Houses of Parliament, the B.B.C. head office, Buckingham Palace etc. and starts a civil war, it leads the White faction to victory and has the army. The army takes the police, the police takes local government, local government takes the mass-media of news and entertainment, and there you go. Then the real war starts. This is the plan that I am pursuing and I think that all other efforts are tributary.

If there are 1 to 2 million people willing to, it could probably happen, so I chose that as my answer.

This thread is going to get the site in trouble.

Ridiculous! If we can't ask such simple, theoretical questions of such obvious relevance to contemporary political affairs, without fear of arrest and suppression, then all is essentially lost already, and we should either take up arms against the state now, or learn to accomodate ourselves to the twin prospects of slavery and extinction. Fortunately, that's just not how things are (yet).

If the movement trying to achieve this is large enough, the same thing might happen as what happened in Romania, the army refused to shoot at the crowds there.

Yes. Same thing happened in the Phillipines.

Similar examples can be cited from the Iranian revolution of 1979, the Russian Revolution (prior to its being hijacked by the Bolshevists), and various French revolutionary conflagrations of the 18th and 19th centuries. Such events seem to almost constitute a sort of litmus test for determining when the government is about to cease its existence. A few years ago, as some of you will no doubt recall, a group of soldiers at the then-Ft. Ord in Monterey, California, were given a sort of essay exam/survey. One the last two questions dealt with a hypothetical in which the solders were asked, in the event private ownership of guns were to be made illegal, and the membership of the now-banned National Rifle Association began organizing an active resistance to the gun confiscation program of the Federal government, would the soldier willingly obey an ostensibly lawful order to fire on groups of American civilians who had refused to comply with the confiscation mandate. Most of the soldiers adamantly stated their refusal to obey such a hypothetical order, and many stated that they would shoot any officer giving such an order.

Tanks are nearly useless in a guerrilla war, and bomber aircraft are completely useless.

I disagree with you on the bomber aircraft. Lets say you have 1500 guerilla fighters in a 15 to 25 mile radius in a forested mountian area. A flight of B-52's could bomb the hell out of them within a day. It has been done before.

We are immortal! :222