how was his early propaganda efforts so full of funding and oh so hollywood slick in apperance?

how come some of his generals near the end of the war discribed him as wanting to loose, they would diplomatically call it a depression.

intimidating and overriding the army experts can be because of megalomania, but there may also be other motives behind this behaviour..

there seems to be two schools as to what may have been the fate of fuhrer after the war; the charred remains in the bunker, and the werewolf in the andes mountains theories.

how about the fuhrer retired as a nose implanted beach boy at a beutiful estate by the black sea?

who benefitted from the war and the outcome of it, who in actuality did then, at that time seem close to their world domination - who has prospered from the war in their ongoing propaganda efforts?

who where the players who might have set it up and prospered from such a slaughter of young, radical men?

self-note: this forum is getting out of hand

-k0nsl

self-note: this forum is getting out of hand

-k0nsl

..tell that to jim x..

now, whos hand is it getting out of?

now, whos hand is it getting out of?

Not Simon Wiesenthal's, that's for sure. I wouldn't even be suprised if that liar post here.

-k0nsl

Hitler was just a guy who got too full of himself. His gambles early in the war paid off, so he got this idea that he could never fail. Pride cometh before a fall.

Near the end of the war, I've read that he more or less wanted to take as much as he could down with him, that he was obsessed with the idea of Gotterdammerung.

Hitler was unknowingly financed by the Rothschilds. The man was a soldier, not a banker and routinely left such matters up to his underlings who made deals with the zionists (this was mostly the work of Eichmann)

My Guru David Icke has commented on this matter as well.

"I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War. This Jewish/non-Jewish Elite used the First World War to secure the Balfour Declaration and the principle of the Jewish State of Israel (for which, given the genetic history of most Jewish people, there is absolutely no justification on historical grounds or any other). They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament."

LINK (http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Ykhb8Rj_yhoJ:www.publiceye.org/Icke/Ickequotes.htm+david+icke+financed+hitler&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

Hitler must have been aware that his maternal grandfather was Jewish:

http://www.threeworldwars.com/world-war-2/adolf-hitler.htm

His invasions during World War Two resulted in the deaths of far more white people than Jews. The Swiss Red Cross estimated in 1946 that between half-a-million and one-and- a-half million Jews died as a result of World War Two. There are no documents that Hitler ever ordered the mass extermination of Jews. Additionally, it has been proven again and again that it was physically and demographically impossible for Hitler to liquidate six-million Jews while the Nazis were in power. In fact, the Nazis collaborated with the Zionists in Jewish immigration to Palestine until the late 1930s.

His Jewish roots could explain Hitler's blunders; namely Dunkirk, in which 300,000 surrounded enemy soldiers escaped to Britain; his failure to follow the advice of his generals to arm the Ukranians and anti-communist Russians until it was too late to win the war on the Russian front; his "no retreat" order at Stalingrad, which resulted in the loss of a 300,000-man army. No doubt there were many more blunders, but I'm not out to write a book.

In short, Hitler was the best friend modern-day Israel ever had. Without Hitler, today's Israel would not exist.

Germany was not the only loser in World War Two; it was a victory for world Jewry over white folks everywhere.

Not Simon Wiesenthal's, that's for sure. I wouldn't even be suprised if that liar post here.

-k0nslUnder the name "k0nsl," probably.

good points, Zoroaster. off course he might have been just unlucky or blinded by the idea of his own greatness.

but the other possible possibilities should be examined and debated aswell, and as you point out, for the one out to write the book, there seems a lot of facinating nuggets to be found within the historical material.

was he a pawn, and an conscious or unconscious agent for dark and mighty forces?

Under the name "k0nsl," probably.

Probably not, rather.

-k0nsl

Shocked and totally so Zoroaster.
You mean Hitler told a lie when he married poor Eva , you mean he might not have been of pure German ( Well in his case Austrian ) blood.

It matters little if he had any Jewish blood in him or not,what does matter was that germany and her people were little more than his play thing.
Like all spoilt and wilful children he destroyed his toy being totally obessed by his own ego and love of himself.

Erich Topp said of being at Hitler headquarters to recieve an award to his RK. He found that at Hitler's table there was only one view being put forward , Hitler's , everyone else was there merely to listen nothing was questioned.

Your considerations on the roots of Hitler's failings as a military commander , the Dunkirk and Russian debacles are flawed and reflect the racist dogma which you without though or question swallow.
A true "Aryan" could not make such mistakes so Hitler must have been "contaminated" , he was " flawed goods".
So a person possibly of "mixed race" was responsible for Germany being defeated , or at least his " Jewish blood" was.
Perhaps Hitler was just a very clever part Jew who planned and manipulated the German people into going to war, adopting a racist anti-semetic policy which was at the heart of goverment , he produced a "Holocaust which never was" ( "R" / Voltamor would like that :D ) and then shot himself when all was lost in order to give the Jewish state of Israel a fighting chance of being set up.
A very clever Jewish game of "double bluff" , "M. Kampf" written by a part Jew. :222 clever.


This all sounds a little far fetched , like " dung from China" .
Like John McEnroe said " You can not be serious" .
Can you ?

More politically correct crap from the Fairyland Express.

Get lost troll. Go play on the freeway.

You can't possibly be serious.

You can't possibly be serious.

If you're addressing me, the question of Hitler's Jewish roots is pure speculation on my part. Surely Hitler was aware of the rumors. I've read that Ernst Rohm may have had some damning evidence about Hitler's grandfather, which led to his execution. Of course, it's impossible to know Hitler's inner thoughts. I think it's safe to say, though, that Hitler wasn't playing with a full deck.

Its only a slight expansion on what Zoroaster put forward,if "His Jewish roots could explain Hitler's blunders" is to be taken seriously , well as far as "Fairyland Express" , you ( "Zoroaster") must be the ticket master.

As far as "playing on the Freeway" goes or being a "troll" don't suggest such rubbish in the first place and I won't reflect it back to you.

lets stay with the case of what ifs..

its all hypothetics and we should all be able to play this game without getting into riddiculing - cause thats the easy part, check out the lounge..

the allied had enourmous amounts of inside info on german moves ahead of theyre execution..

the alies had some intense network of informants within the reich, probably possebly within the high command also..

when many people discuss whether hitler could have been a operative, there is a need for claryfying analyzis and a straight succsesion of logical and empirical arguments as to what might have been tha case..

why so manically opposed to hypothetic discussion and analysis? if you have no insightful and historically valid contributions, go make yourself useful on another thread. :cool:

The Allies got the intelligence because Hitler's arrogance rubbed off on the German high command in general. They felt their codes were unbreakable, and refused to accept the possibility. Same with the Japanese.

Panzerboy, "what if's" are fine but there has to be a line where the "what if " becomes a total flight of fantasy.
There is nothing to base this on, who might Hitler have been " an operative" for ?
I don't have a problem with what you suggest , but it has to be in some what related to reality and options which might have been open at the time.
Hitler being some form of agent , its something of a complete and utter wild card.
As Sinclair points out , "Enigma" and "Purple" were being read on an almost daily basis.
Hitler being a plant for some third party , apart from his many mistakes what actual " historical insights " ?
Would make you consider this as an option ?
For example , he went to bed late on 5th June , told his staff not to wake him , "Overlord" took place , he slept on, does this suggest he might have known of the date of the invasion in advance and ensured that it would fail ?

Ironworker , are you being serious. ( I don't think so).
David Icke the Ex-Coventry City Goalkeeper , the ex-football pundit.
The "Colour Purple" , " The God Head" , visitors from outer space, the worlds major leaders are lizards from outer space who wear skin to conceal themselves.
All from David ( Icke) , serious reality check needed on this one.

the allied had enourmous amounts of inside info on german moves ahead of theyre execution..


The Allied ability to read German code might have had something to do with that.


the alies had some intense network of informants within the reich, probably possebly within the high command also..


The Nazis were extremists who BY THE NATURE of extremism alienate people. Furthermore, the fact that the Germans fought virtually every one of their neighbors allowed for plenty of slights to various people.

Perhaps Hitler was just a very clever part Jew who planned and manipulated the German people into going to war

Sorry to inform you but Hitler never planned to manipulate the German people into going to war. The English, French & Americans has always been bent on destroying Germany, which they indeed did.

Was it not the English and French who declared war on Germany? Did not World Jewry cry for battle against Germany? Did not FDR maneuver America into war only because FDR wanted war?

-k0nsl

The Allies got the intelligence because Hitler's arrogance rubbed off on the German high command in general. They felt their codes were unbreakable, and refused to accept the possibility. Same with the Japanese.

Did the Allies not also have a spy named Admiral Canaris (I think that was his name) in the German high command?

-k0nsl

Sorry to inform you but Hitler never planned to manipulate the German people into going to war. The English, French & Americans has always been bent on destroying Germany, which they indeed did.


Always? Of course they did. The French were brilliant in their Anti-German program of allowing the Germans to march into the Ruhr without any opposition whatsoever. The British were diabolical in their Anti-German conspiracy of letting the Nazis eat Czechoslovakia whole. The Americans were fiendish in their anti-German plot to help stabilize the German economy by arranging reasonable payment methods and giving massive loans to Germany.

Its all quite sinister.

Who was he acting for , if there might have been the possibility 500,000,000,000,000 to 0.1 that he might have been motivated or employed by some third party.
He would have to have started his "contract" when , at the time of the first attempt to get into power or when ?

As far as GB., France and America being hell bent on the destruction of Germany went Henry makes valid points , doubtless the Jews are in there somewhere.
Rhineland , Czechoslovakia , Austria , the loans .
Your own view of history is selective
Chamberlain though he could trust Hitler , the French would not go to war alone.
Hitlers proposals for a settlement with Poland , before a reply could be made they had been invaded.

Correct me if I am wrong k0nsl but the machinery and jigs used to build the Luftwaffe up , they were imported from America , were they not ?

Sorry to inform you but Hitler never planned to manipulate the German people into going to war. The English, French & Americans has always been bent on destroying Germany, which they indeed did.

Was it not the English and French who declared war on Germany? Did not World Jewry cry for battle against Germany? Did not FDR maneuver America into war only because FDR wanted war?

-k0nsl

[enter: Fade]

No...not this again. No...NO.....Nooooo!

k0nsl, To what extent to you say Carnaris was an active spy ?
Certainly he was not an ardent supporter of Hitler.
FDR did not declare war on Germany , he was correct in that Germany would act against American interests in their support of japan and their expansion and aggression in the Far East.
From Hitler's track record in Europe it was pretty plain that sooner or later America was going to be at war with Germany.
A defeated GB. would not be in America's best interests , the expansion of the Axis to include Japan put America on borrowed time.
FDR did not have many choices, most having been made for him by events in Europe and the potential events in ther Far East.
Will this run forever , probably will.

no, thats another thread.. :)

this is the Hitler, the deliberate (or hypnotized or mind controlled into beeing a) provocateur - thead.

conspiracy theories for the conspirologists with a bad mania... :222

Always? Of course they did. The French were brilliant in their Anti-German program of allowing the Germans to march into the Ruhr without any opposition whatsoever. The British were diabolical in their Anti-German conspiracy of letting the Nazis eat Czechoslovakia whole. The Americans were fiendish in their anti-German plot to help stabilize the German economy by arranging reasonable payment methods and giving massive loans to Germany.

Its all quite sinister.

Why would they do these things if not to hide their guilt? THAT IS THE QUESTION. :p

http://www.littlebritain.tv/characters_kenny.htm
Perhaps Hitler was like thisa "Character" from the BBC 3 Series "Little Britain".
Kenny misues his "Powers" to con his public and to sell them rubbish goods , get out of tight spots.
Trouble is his powers don't last for long and he always gets caught out.
My idea is that Hitler was gifted with the same ability and his mas hypnosis just couldn't last . :eek:
He put the entire everyone in Germany "Under" ( his power) persuaded
"everyone" that things like the "H" issue and the war was still not his fault.
99.9% of the people woke up and saw that it was a con 0.1 % remain under and still under Hitlers spell believe that he did'nt cause the war and that there was no "H". :eek: :p
"Revisionist" views come from this source. :eek:

k0nsl
"Sorry to inform you but Hitler never planned to manipulate the German people into going to war. The English, French & Americans has always been bent on destroying Germany, which they indeed did.

Was it not the English and French who declared war on Germany? Did not World Jewry cry for battle against Germany? Did not FDR maneuver America into war only because FDR wanted war?"

k0nsl , I rest my case , "Kenny" got to you ( and a few others) and it stuck unlike 99.9% of the rest of the world you believe that is " The Linz 1" , innocent of all and pure as the driven snow.
This is as serious as this thread is going to get . :eek:

While Allied intelligence certainly played a major role in defeating Germany, it had little, if anything, to do with Hitler's "stop" order at Dunkirk, or his failure to organize and arm the anti-Communist Ukrainians and Russians immediately following the Russian invasion, or his "no retreat" policy at Stalingrad. These were Hitler's decisions and led to Germany's ultimate defeat. It may be a bit of a stretch to say Hitler secretly promoted world Jewry because of his Jewish grandfather, but, in termperment, he favored the Jew. Compare Hitler to, say, Frederick the Great or Bismark. How bout Martin Luther?

Zoroaster , Hitler in touch with his Jewish side , his possible jewish blood and its influence a potential influene in his making so many mistakes.
This is one that just cannot be taken seriously and serves only to illustrate how unreasonable your own views of race , bloodlines and anti-semetic thinking really is.
This is cloud cuckoo land.
Move on from Stalingrad and you will find plenty more mistakes , it has been said that Stalingrad might not have lost the war but it did point to the possibility that it would be lost under Hitlers direction.
As a military man Hitler was out of his league , this has nothing to do with Jewish blood its got to do with the type of person Hitler was.

He was the highest-ranking corporal in the world, more or less. Hitler was not a great leader. By the end of the war, he was downright delusional.

Right you are, Sinclair. German patriots were out to get Hitler even before the start of World War Two. Some of them must have known about Hitler's Jewish grandfather.

The July 20, 1944 assassination attempt against Adolf Hitler was not the act of a lone officer but the last chapter of a six-year conspiracy involving more than 200 German army officers, intelligence officials, diplomats, civil servants, and politicians.

During the 1938 Czech-Sudetenland crisis, the highest ranking officers of the German Army had assembled a commando force in Berlin to overthrow Hitler and the Nazi regime. The go-ahead contingent on whether Britain would stand up to Hitler.?

The aborted 1938 attempt to liberate Germany was to be the first of 17 assassination attempts against Hitler by the German Resistance over the next six years.

Zoroaster any attempts on Hitler's life had nothing to do with a " Jewish Grandfather", as Sinclair points out his leaderhsip was the issue.
Your view that it was in some way " Jewish" has more to do with your own prejudices than anything which is objective.

The troll from Fairyland is habitually dishonest:

I wrote that some of them (The Germans who attemped to assassinate Hitler) must have known of Hitler's Jewish grandfather. I did not write, as the troll implies, that they were motivated by it. It's possible, of course, but to say they were motivated by knowledge of Hitler's Jewish grandfather would be nothing more than speculation. Did Lenin's Jewish roots, one of his grandparents, I believe, bode ill for Russia? It's not hard to find a pattern.

If a fairy focuses on written words for any length of time, the truth becomes distorted and not itself but falsehood.

Zoroaster , just so you can be sure why Hitler was plotted against and what the real threat to the german people was and where it came from , the man who had taken a stranglehold on the nation.

"Some of them must have known about Hitler's Jewish grandfather." *
What proof can you offer to Hitler having a jewish grandfather ?
His " Jewish blood " be it actual or imagined had nothing to do with any plots against him , just so you can be sure.

Perhaps you have a little "fairy blood" in you as in the quote above* you do not say but its python like " nudge nudge, wink , wink".

On your best days, fairy, I would treat you as a harmless freak, giving you and your opinions all the respect accorded to the hermaphrodite at the circus.

Right you are, Sinclair. German patriots were out to get Hitler even before the start of World War Two. Some of them must have known about Hitler's Jewish grandfather.

The July 20, 1944 assassination attempt against Adolf Hitler was not the act of a lone officer but the last chapter of a six-year conspiracy involving more than 200 German army officers, intelligence officials, diplomats, civil servants, and politicians.

During the 1938 Czech-Sudetenland crisis, the highest ranking officers of the German Army had assembled a commando force in Berlin to overthrow Hitler and the Nazi regime. The go-ahead contingent on whether Britain would stand up to Hitler.?

The aborted 1938 attempt to liberate Germany was to be the first of 17 assassination attempts against Hitler by the German Resistance over the next six years.

I have no idea whether or not Hitler was of Jewish origin, but if he had a Jewish grandfather, he wouldn't have been Jewish, and that's by the Jewish definition: They count anyone who had a Jewish mother (who must have herself had a Jewish mother, and so on) as being Jewish.

I would think that assassination attempts against him would be more about his autocratic rule and his military incompetence.

Zoroaster for your "respect accorded" I thank you .
If you are trying to find a relationship between Hitler and Lennin on the grounds of " Jewish Blood" I think you are well of track.

Perhaps Pol Pot was a " Jew" or perhaps Stalin was " A Jew" , when you are looking for pattern to provide evidence on such a flimsy basis any "pattern" will do.

I am not really interested in trading insults with you so you are quite wasting your time, take it as a favour that I inform you so.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to put on the mod hat and say:

[mod hat]No flaming, m'kay?[/mod hat]

EDIT:
I just noticed that rhymes.

I dug this up just for you, Sinclair:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_325b.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Was Hitler part Jewish?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Cecil:

I and a number of my friends were raised Jewish. In different Sunday and Hebrew schools, we all heard myths that Hitler was Jewish, and some said that his heritage, not the impending allied victory, caused him to commit suicide. One stubborn boy insists that Hitler's father was at least half Jewish, and that young Adolf hated his father, causing him to translate his hatred into mass slaughter as an adult. Secular teachers, history books, and encyclopedias make no mention of Hitler having any Jewish blood. I hope you, Cecil the all-knowing, can set the record straight. -- Anonymous, Dallas

Cecil replies:

Wish I could oblige, bubeleh. But while Hitler probably didn't have any Jewish blood, it can't be completely ruled out. Hitler's father was illegitimate and to this day there is some question about who his grandfather was. Throughout his career he was dogged by rumors about his pedigree, some of them circulated by his fellow Nazis. In 1933 the London Daily Mirror published a picture of a gravestone in a Jewish cemetery in Bucharest inscribed with some Hebrew characters and the name Adolf Hitler. It's now known the Bucharest Hitler could not have been grandfather to our Adolf, but Hitler was sufficiently worried about the whole business that, according to the historian John Toland, he had the Nazi law defining Jewishness written to exclude Jesus Christ and himself.

Here's what we know: Hitler's paternal grandmother, Maria Schicklgruber, gave birth to Alois, Hitler's father, in 1837. She was 42 and unmarried at the time and apparently never revealed the father's identity. Five years later she married Johann Georg Hiedler or Hitler (spelling was a bit casual in those days). But Alois kept the surname Schicklgruber until he was 39 years old.

In 1876 a new baptismal certificate was issued declaring that Alois's stepfather J.G. Hiedler was in fact his real father. By this time both Maria and J.G. were dead. Why the name change so late in the day nobody really knows, but there is speculation that Alois did it so he could come into an inheritance. At any rate, few researchers today believe J.G. was really Alois's father.

Now for the weird stuff. After the war Hitler's former lawyer, Hans Frank, claimed that Adolf told him in 1930 that one of his relatives was trying to blackmail him by threatening to reveal his alleged Jewish ancestry. Hitler asked Frank to find out the facts. Frank says he determined that at the time Maria Schicklgruber gave birth to Alois, she was working as a household cook in the town of Graz. Her employers were a Jewish family named Frankenberger, who had a 19-year-old son. The son, according to Frank, was Alois's father and Hitler's grandfather--which would make the man who inspired the Holocaust one-quarter Jewish.

Frank's allegations have vexed historians ever since. The distinguished Hitler scholar Werner Maser was so irritated he claimed Frank made the whole thing up. Others think Frank was telling the truth but that the research he did for Hitler was faulty. It turns out that all Jews had been expelled from Graz in the 15th century and were not allowed to return until the 1860s; what's more, so far as can be determined, Maria Schicklgruber never lived in Graz. Frank's source for the Frankenberger yarn was a distant relation of Hitler's, who supposedly had letters exchanged by the Frankenbergers and Maria Schicklgruber. (It's claimed they gave her child support.) But neither the relative nor the letters have ever surfaced, and chances are it's all a crock.

So who really was Hitler's grandfather? Werner Maser thinks it was the brother of his legal grandfather, one Johann Nepomuk Hiedler. But that's not all. J. Nepomuk was also the grandfather of Klara Poelzl, Hitler's mom. In other words, J.N. was both Adolph's paternal grandfather and his maternal great-grandfather. I'm not about to tell you any of this was the proximate cause of Hitler's persecution of the Jews, his suicide, or anything else. Still, if you believe Maser, not only was Hitler twisted, so was his family tree.

--CECIL ADAMS

I've seen that before. It doesn't say Hitler is Jewish, it just says that his grandfather is sort of a mystery, and might be a quarter Jewish in ethnicity. But he still would not be considered Jewish by Jews, as his mother was not Jewish.

We agree, then, exactly who was Hitler's grandfather will always remain a mystery.

I wasn't aware of all the inbreeding that went on in Hitler's family. I did know Hitler had a thing with his niece, Geli Raubal, the daughter of his half-sister, in the late 1920s. While she was shacked-up with Hitler, they lived together four years, she committed suicide with his gun. Some say Hitler murdered her. She was only twenty-three years old at the time. Hitler was twenty years her senior.

Apparently it was a tradition in the Hitler family for uncles to copulate with their nieces.

See Kershaws "Hubris" you will find the background of Hitlers line in it also the Geli issue which has been the subject of much speculation.
Hitler had other relationships with young impressionable girls , it was fatal for the german people that he found an impressionable nation - the destruction was similar.

The tradition of uncle-niece copulation in the Hitler family were common to Jews and other Middle Eastern cultures. Kevin MacDonald commented on it in Undedrstanding Jewish Influece 1:

I. Jews are Hyperethnocentric
Elsewhere I have argued that Jewish hyperethnocentrism can be traced back to their Middle Eastern origins.6 Traditional Jewish culture has a number of features identifying Jews with the ancestral cultures of the area. The most important of these is that Jews and other Middle Eastern cultures evolved under circumstances that favored large groups dominated by males.7 These groups were basically extended families with high levels of endogamy (i.e., marriage within the kinship group) and consanguineous marriage (i.e., marriage to blood relatives), including the uncle-niece marriage sanctioned in the Old Testament. These features are exactly the opposite of Western European tendencies (See Table 1).8

http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol3no2/km-understanding.html

Thin Ice.
Wonder if Hitler was really "007". :rolleyes: