By John Keegan, Defence Editor
(Filed: 04/08/2004)


http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/08/04/do0401.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/08/04/ixopinion.html

The Spanish world seems to have a talent for diplomatic grievance, prolonged beyond the point where even well-wishers lose patience. Argentina's obsession with possession of the Falklands is a case in point. Motherland Spain's refusal to accept Britain's rights over Gibraltar is another.

The Spanish have recently been at it again, protesting about celebrations of the 300th anniversary of the British capture of the Rock, at the Princess Royal's visit and at a British frigate firing an 18-gun salute.
Diplomatically, there is no doubt about Britain's right to Gibraltar. It was captured in a fair fight in 1704 during the War of the Spanish Succession and ceded by Spain to Britain as one of the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht that ended the war in 1713. Spain made several attempts to recapture the Rock, particularly during the Great Siege of 1779-82, but all failed.

Gibraltar became the most important outpost of British naval power in the Mediterranean at the end of the 18th century, the base from which Nelson launched his campaign to defeat the French at the Nile in 1798 and to overwhelm the Franco-Spanish fleet at Trafalgar in 1805. And 22 years ago it was a vital staging post for parts of the task force on the way to the Falklands.

During the 19th century, the Rock, originally barren and uninhabited, acquired a population, now 30,000-strong, which was not Spanish at all. Though most Gibraltarians speak a dialect of Spanish, as well as colloquial English, they are of very varied origin, descending from North African Sephardic Jews and the offspring of British soldiers and sailors. Gibraltar town is as British as Portsmouth. The shops sell British newspapers and British confectionery, the policemen dress like British bobbies, the taxi drivers banter in British catchphrases.

Despite the determination of the Gibraltarians to remain British, successive Westminster governments have made determined efforts to placate Spanish resentments over Gibraltar. Even during the Franco years, when there were serious constitutional objections over the transfer of sovereignty from a local democracy to a foreign dictatorship, Britain proposed the idea of joint sovereignty. It also used its good offices to smooth the path for Spain's entry both into Nato and the then EEC.

Those favours have been forgotten. Spain's new socialist government is now advancing familiar claims and uttering ancient objections. It seems unlikely that it could be placated even by the arrangement of joint sovereignty. Spain wants Gibraltar back, as part of the national territory, however much the Gibraltarians object.

There are good reasons why the British Government is unwilling to agree. The most important are the wishes of the Gibraltarians themselves. They convincingly deny that they are Spanish and insist that they wish to preserve the status they currently enjoy.

In 2002, in an unofficial referendum, which both Britain and Spain refused - shamefully - to recognise, 98 per cent of voters rejected a proposal for joint sovereignty on an 88 per cent turnout. This echoed the official 1967 referendum, in which 12,138 voted against becoming part of Spain, and 44 voted in favour.

Beyond the democratic argument, however, there are vital strategic considerations. Gibraltar commands one of the most important waterways in the world, the entry into and exit from the Mediterranean. It is policed by the Royal Navy and effectively so, despite recent and projected reductions in British naval strength. Yet there is a manifest threat to safe passage through the Gibraltar Strait levelled by Islamic terrorists based in Morocco.

The Kingdom of Morocco is stalwartly anti-terrorist, but that is no guarantee against terrorists operating by clandestine means from remote bases, as recent attacks on American and French ships in Arabian waters demonstrate. The British naval presence is far more reassuring.

Spain's military capacity to police the western Mediterranean against Islamic attacks is questionable. The new socialist government's firmity of purpose has been called into question by its withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq following the al-Qa'eda attack on the Madrid railway station earlier this year. Both the Spanish navy and air force are deficient in effective operational units, even if the government's political will to act with determination was evident, which it is not.

The new Spanish prime minister has shown that he believes Spain is better protected by appeasement of terrorist enemies than by an offensive response. Britain, and the Gibraltarians, have good reason to fear that appeasement merely encourages organisations such as al-Qa'eda to redouble their efforts.

No doubt it irritates the Spanish, that a part, however small, of its contiguous territory is not under the control of its national government. The situation, however, is not unique, and other countries seem able to live equably with similar anomalies.

Sweden, for example, accepts Finnish sovereignty over the off-shore Aland Islands, though their population is only Swedish. Denmark, after several wars with Germany, today accepts German sovereignty over Schleswig-Holstein, where much of the population is Danish-speaking.

Perhaps most pertinently, Spain itself regards the enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla, both in North Africa and claimed by Morocco, as an integral part of its own territory. Closer to home, France, the most nationalistic of nations, makes no claim at all to the Anglo-Norman Islands known to the British as the Channel Islands, though they lie almost within French territorial waters.

Rational argument has little part to play where deep nationalist emotions operate. Nevertheless, the Spanish ought to accept that, while their non-Spanish neighbours in Gibraltar refuse to join the Spanish kingdom, there is no point in persisting with their traditional claims.

The War of the Spanish Succession was over 300 years ago. There is no reason to revive it.

Did someone say "Gibraltar"?

*waiting for Ebus to storm in here with raise fist and foaming at the mouth "Gibraltar is OURS!"* :D

No worries Wehr, I do not enjoy making a clown of myself like you enjoy so much :D


It was captured in a fair fight in 1704 during the War of the Spanish Succesion

It was taken by the Dutch who along the Brits were siding with the Austrian choice in the succesion. The Dutch moved their army inland and left some Brits to guard the fort, the Brits just kept it from them.

and ceded by Spain to Britain as one of the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht that ended the war in 1713.

This is true, The UK offered to swap Gibraltar for other colonial possesions in America and Spain refused.

Spain made several attempts to recapture the Rock, particularly during the Great Siege of 1779-82, but all failed.

True, the managed to take the island of Minorca back but failed in Gibraltar, fair fight.

During the 19th century, the Rock, originally barren and uninhabited, acquired a population, now 30,000-strong, which was not Spanish at all.

This is false, there was an original Spanish population which was forced out and their descendants live in a nearby Spanish town.

Though most Gibraltarians speak a dialect of Spanish, as well as colloquial English, they are of very varied origin, descending from North African Sephardic Jews and the offspring of British soldiers and sailors.

Not only that, it received population from Malta, Italy and a considerable Spanish influx (Cheap laborers)

Despite the determination of the Gibraltarians to remain British, successive Westminster governments have made determined efforts to placate Spanish resentments over Gibraltar. Even during the Franco years, when there were serious constitutional objections over the transfer of sovereignty from a local democracy to a foreign dictatorship, Britain proposed the idea of joint sovereignty. It also used its good offices to smooth the path for Spain's entry both into Nato and the then EEC.

True, the Brit goverment had offered many times to either sell it, exchange it during the XIX Century, Churchill offered it as a "gift" to Franco for his non adhesion to the Axis to be turned over after the war (Of course this was not honored). Of course the population living there had no intention in becomming Spain, which I understand and respect.

Those favours have been forgotten. Spain's new socialist government is now advancing familiar claims and uttering ancient objections.

The Spanish Goverment saw its hand forced in this issue due to sensationalistic news broadcasts and is not "advancing familiar claims" at all.

It seems unlikely that it could be placated even by the arrangement of joint sovereignty.

This is actually what Spain asked for but was refused by the UK after an unofficial referendum at the rock that gave a 98% against this shared sovereignty.

Spain wants Gibraltar back, as part of the national territory, however much the Gibraltarians object.

"Spain" nowadays does not give a hoot about the Rock itself, it does not "need" this place that has lost much of its Strategic meaning in modern warfare and globalization. Spain is part of an European Union where borders loose more and more meaning and in such a light does not crave to plant any flag over this rock.

There are good reasons why the British Government is unwilling to agree. The most important are the wishes of the Gibraltarians themselves. They convincingly deny that they are Spanish and insist that they wish to preserve the status they currently enjoy.

Of course I would do just the same..yet we do not have to confuse Brit patriotism with a well defined goal of trying to become a tax heaven in the EU.

In 2002, in an unofficial referendum, which both Britain and Spain refused - shamefully - to recognise, 98 per cent of voters rejected a proposal for joint sovereignty on an 88 per cent turnout.

Refused to recognize? The joint sovereignty idea was dropped just due to that..what is this man smoking?

Beyond the democratic argument, however, there are vital strategic considerations. Gibraltar commands one of the most important waterways in the world, the entry into and exit from the Mediterranean. It is policed by the Royal Navy and effectively so, despite recent and projected reductions in British naval strength. Yet there is a manifest threat to safe passage through the Gibraltar Strait levelled by Islamic terrorists based in Morocco.

LMAO

The Kingdom of Morocco is stalwartly anti-terrorist, but that is no guarantee against terrorists operating by clandestine means from remote bases, as recent attacks on American and French ships in Arabian waters demonstrate. The British naval presence is far more reassuring.

LOL...Great twist..Would like to know what do they plan interdicting...Terrorist Battleships? Carrier groups? Because for sure they do not help at all in stopping the continuos inmigrant raft invasion upon South Spain, where to be sure, is the biggest "threat" of Terrorist comming in. I doubt terrorists will make a D-Day landing for the Royal Navy to defeat. :D

Spain's military capacity to police the western Mediterranean against Islamic attacks is questionable.

I´m yet to see any British help in policing the Strait against the hordes of potential terrorists swarming the European coastlines. But then again they might be waiting for a Terrorist Heavy Cruiser to sail in their waters. Maybe this will change and it would be a welcome help..even German patrolships are helping the Spanish authorities in patroling for inmigrant rafts..no brit help there.

The new socialist government's firmity of purpose has been called into question by its withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq following the al-Qa'eda attack on the Madrid railway station earlier this year.

LMAO..No comments on this one since it has been tackeld already in a diferent thread (or several)

Both the Spanish navy and air force are deficient in effective operational units, even if the government's political will to act with determination was evident, which it is not.

See above...Lets all brace for the the Terrorist naval task force incomming :D

The new Spanish prime minister has shown that he believes Spain is better protected by appeasement of terrorist enemies than by an offensive response.

This alone disqualifies the whole article

Britain, and the Gibraltarians, have good reason to fear that appeasement merely encourages organisations such as al-Qa'eda to redouble their efforts.

Yes...a very wise move.

No doubt it irritates the Spanish, that a part, however small, of its contiguous territory is not under the control of its national government. The situation, however, is not unique, and other countries seem able to live equably with similar anomalies.

It irritates in the sense that an EU land has a colony (Its a Royal Crown Colony since the XIX Century) on what could be argued as metropolitan area. Its irritating that Gibraltar has steadily grown in size by slowly swallowing Spanish land and sea. The fight over the new extended airport is just one example as it was partilay build over Spanish land and sea..Spain offered not to ***** if the nearby Spanish areas might enjoy this airport too..The UK found it acceptable..yet our patriotic Gibralatrese refused as they saw it as a step towards Spanish anexation :rolleyes: and so it remains.

Denmark, after several wars with Germany, today accepts German sovereignty over Schleswig-Holstein, where much of the population is Danish-speaking.

What does our mouth foamer excellent think of that Wehr?

Perhaps most pertinently, Spain itself regards the enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla, both in North Africa and claimed by Morocco, as an integral part of its own territory.

I would give them back in an eye blink since its just another way for inmigrants to reach Spanish territory easier.

Closer to home, France, the most nationalistic of nations, makes no claim at all to the Anglo-Norman Islands known to the British as the Channel Islands, though they lie almost within French territorial waters.

Its hardly comparable anyhow

The War of the Spanish Succession was over 300 years ago. There is no reason to revive it.

The point here which the writer either ignores or likes to ignore is that Gibraltar has its own ideas on how things should go. Most of its population lives on Spanish land for quite a while due to cheaper prices and crammed conditions on the Rock itself. Gibraltar does know what would happen to them if by any remote chance the rock would revert to Spain...they would become just one sleepy town more along the Andalusian coast line. They would loose the great incomme they are making now due to smuggle and off shore dubious banking. They crave to become a sort of Caiman Island within Europe. When asking Spaniards, most of them do not really care two damns about the rock itself for it has lost all strategic meaning in this technological time. Its anoying for them to hear every now and then this Peter Caruana outright insulting Spain whenever he has the chance in order to make any possible decent convivence impossible. Its not Spain who brings this issue up, its the own Gibralatarese people who need to call attention on themselves. The whole patriotic chest thumping fools no one (besides perhaps the writer of this article) since its a pure economical issue which I understand and most probably would agree with if I would live in Gibraltar. What would you choose? Becoming just another small sea side town with no special rights or a Caiman Island? A no brainer really...to bad the UK really buys into their fervent flagwaving.

One way or another if the EU proyect goes ahead will proove the demise of this place as borders will loose more and more meaning and "special conditions" are not likely to be handed out. For all the headaches this places creates it would be only nice and fitting if we could tow this rock to Plymouth to join their eager "countrymen".

Spain's military capacity to police the western Mediterranean against Islamic attacks is questionable.

Like Spain could not afford constructing couple of modern warships to patrol the area. :rolleyes:
There's more to it than preventing possible Islamic attacks. Gibraltar means the control over Mediterranean 'swimmingpool' - something Britain wont give up so easily.

"Spain" nowadays does not give a hoot about the Rock itself, it does not "need" this place that has lost much of its Strategic meaning in modern warfare and globalization.

Can't agree on this, as long as the sea is the most effective way of shipping military supplies men equipment etc in bulk Gibralatar is good to have( unless one side goes nuclear).


The point here which the writer either ignores or likes to ignore is that Gibraltar has its own ideas on how things should go. Most of its population lives on Spanish land for quite a while due to cheaper prices and crammed conditions on the Rock itself. Gibraltar does know what would happen to them if by any remote chance the rock would revert to Spain...they would become just one sleepy town more along the Andalusian coast line. They would loose the great incomme they are making now due to smuggle and off shore dubious banking. They crave to become a sort of Caiman Island within Europe. When asking Spaniards, most of them do not really care two damns about the rock itself for it has lost all strategic meaning in this technological time. Its anoying for them to hear every now and then this Peter Caruana outright insulting Spain whenever he has the chance in order to make any possible decent convivence impossible. Its not Spain who brings this issue up, its the own Gibralatarese people who need to call attention on themselves. The whole patriotic chest thumping fools no one (besides perhaps the writer of this article) since its a pure economical issue which I understand and most probably would agree with if I would live in Gibraltar. What would you choose? Becoming just another small sea side town with no special rights or a Caiman Island? A no brainer really...to bad the UK really buys into their fervent flagwaving.

This I can certainly believe, money talks and bull**** walks... but I think the way the EU is going Europe( they are trying to bully Switzerland into getting rid of its banking secrecy laws) needs more Caiman islands... the worry of sending money offshore is one of the few things keeping out of control socialistic governments in check nowadays.

Gibraltar is one of several other places such as The Falklands, Northern Ireland, and previously Hong Kong which Britain maintains with a small population of "patriotic", Union Jack-waving colonists in order to effect maximum irritation to the nations whose national territory is being infringed. :rolleyes:

A couple of nukes would solve the problem ;)

No one would give a damn if these people would just stop growing by building stuff on already Spanish land, stop the broad daylight tobacco smuggle, stop the scandalous money laundering and stop being a suspcious tax heaven. There are already more companies with its "residence" in Gibraltar than people actually live there. This is what Gibraltarese of course wish to keep that way and Spain does not like. The rest is only a matter of time and the gradual erasing of borders that comes with the growing of the EU.
I would truly love if the Royal Navy would use this base to help out a bit trying to stop the daily flood of inmigrant barges and boats instead of, like the author claims, be expecting the terrorists to embody themselves on top of a Terrorist Battleship. Most likely most Terrorist will enter ilegaly through one of these rafts or legaly via one of the ferries that comunicate one side of the strait with the other.

Weikel...Gibraltar has lost its Strategic meaning long ago...Fleets since the day of the aircraft carrier have lost most of its meaning.

Erasing of borders, Ebus? At least no one can accuse you of being realistic.

I don't see any reason for Spain to give up the fight for Gibraltar. It is a crucial waterway dividing Iberia from Morocco and if it were in Spanish possession, it would be an upperhand to the Spanish government in the policing of illegal immigration and underground drug traffiking. The Spanish government in all matters seems more interested in this since the English tend to hold a similar attitude as the Yanks. Spain (and Southern Europe in general) is more nationally conscious and responsive to things like immigration, the Islamic threat, and drug traffiking. Gibraltar is best left in Spanish hands.

Like Spain could not afford constructing couple of modern warships to patrol the area. :rolleyes:
There's more to it than preventing possible Islamic attacks. Gibraltar means the control over Mediterranean 'swimmingpool' - something Britain wont give up so easily.


The English are the yankees of Europe.

PS. Fade, what is your opinion on the matter? 'Should' Spain give up the struggle for Gibraltar? And if so, 'should' I remind you of Heidegger's comments on what exactly 'should' signifies here? The reality is that opinion means little here. The decisions of the government and its course of action mean everything. If we do not directly control those decisions, our discussion becomes 'idle talk', an orgy of worthless commentary on the matter. Although it is good to bring up the issue. :)

BTW, what is your perspective of the English?

Erasing of borders, Ebus? At least no one can accuse you of being realistic.

If the proyect of the European Union goes ahead then the progressive dilution of the national borders is inevitable. This is not my idea on how things should be but its the path of the EU. Simple as that. In such a EU there is no place for special interest areas like Gibraltar would wish to do for themselves. This is not Spanish meddling, its just the path of the EU.

I don't see any reason for Spain to give up the fight for Gibraltar.

There is no "fight" per sé..there is a reaction to certain Gibraltar polices and their way of calling attention upon themselves which is irritating to the Spanish population and is channelled through its Goverment.

It is a crucial waterway dividing Iberia from Morocco and if it were in Spanish possession, it would be an upperhand to the Spanish government in the policing of illegal immigration and underground drug traffiking.

There is not a single thing that would make policing of illegal immigration and underground drug traffiking any easier or optimitzed because Spain would own that Rock. If you take a casual look at any Atlas you will see that its just that, a small tip of land, not that special or better than the surrounding Spanish facilities like Algeciras or Tarifa. There is certainly no "need" in Spain for this rock as a way of optimitzing the fight against the issues you brough forward. It would help though that the Royal Navy there could lend a helping hand to battle this. But thats not what they are doing since they benefit from the smuggle themselves.

The Spanish government in all matters seems more interested in this since the English tend to hold a similar attitude as the Yanks. Spain (and Southern Europe in general) is more nationally conscious and responsive to things like immigration, the Islamic threat, and drug traffiking. Gibraltar is best left in Spanish hands.

The Spanish Goverment and people might feel emotionally that the rock "should" be theirs but I can assure you that Spain is way more pragmatic than that and realitzes this is not an easy problem to tackle. Most count on the EU to gradualy erode the special conditions of that place in the parts that hurt Spain the most (Money laundering, off shore banking, smuggling, the arrogance and confrontational people like Caruana, etc..) Besides that I can tell you there are no mass gatherings clamoring for the return of the Rock. Its something people have in their subconciousness. Spain would like that rock, and the problems associated, simply to disapear. The rock itself and its monkeys is totally secondary.

If the project of the European Union goes ahead then the progressive dilution of the national borders is inevitable. This is not my idea on how things should be but its the path of the EU. Simple as that. In such a EU there is no place for special interest areas like Gibraltar would wish to do for themselves. This is not Spanish meddling, its just the path of the EU.

Britain is in EU only de iure. One of the best indication they don't have any serious intentions to constructively participate in this project is the refuse of the use of Euro.
Its convenient for their purposes to remain a member so they can influence the continental policy better, to use industrial espionage over Germany, to lobby for Turkish entrance, to agitate for US interests ect. ect. ect.
Its the old British policy to play the role of disunity factor because week continent = strong Britain.
One must only observe their historic role - every time some continental state became powerful they allayed them selves with its weaker neighbors. Thats how they destroyed Spanish Empire, Napoleon, German Empire, Austro Hungaria, Third Reich. They simply feed on European wars, and every European order in which they wont dominate they regard as a threat to their national interests.
Its a very fortunate circumstance France and Germany started to cooperate because without inter-European antagonisms the Downing Street 10. shall not be able to conspire.

That is true Zvaci but the very EU laws wont allow such "Pirate havens" to exist within the EU for much longer. That the UK will use the Rock as a way to anoy Spain is something Spaniards have grown kind of used in time.