I was chatting with an Irish nationalist in M.I.R.C. and he claimed that actually there was/is no civil war in Ireland.According to him "Irish" Protestants are actually of Schotish(mainly) and English ancestry,just as Catholic "Schotish" are actually Irish that migrated to Schotland a few centuries ago.According to him all Irish are Catholics and all English and Schotish are Protestants.
Is there any truth in these claims?

Yes, that is largely correct.
Unfortunately I don't have time to go through the whole history over the various centuries but the Unionist/Loyalist community are almost entirely descended from English and Scottish "Planters" whom the British sent over to colonise the land confiscated from the native Catholic Irish.
The Nationalist Community is that which descends mainly from the dispossessed Irish.

As for the Catholic Scottish, there are native Scots who survived the Reformation untouched (mainly in the Highlands and Western Isles), but the numbers of Catholics certainly increased many times over by the influx of Irish during the late 18th & 19th century into Scotland.

It's very ironic, if one remembers the Dal Riada.

It's very ironic, if one remembers the Dal Riada.

In a sense.
Dal Riada was an Irish kingdom which sent colonists to Alba (the former name from Scotland). These Irish colonists were known as "Scots".
The Convention of Druim Ceatt (in which St Columba was present) eventually made Scottish Dal Riada an independent kingdom from the rest of the kingdom across the Irish sea.

Of course by the time of the Reformation, much of Scotland, particularly the lowlands, had converted to Protestantism (princpally Presbyterianism), while a significant amount of the Highlands and Western Isles remained Catholic.
The English saw the planatation of Protestant Scots to Ireland as an ideal way to put a wedge in the Irish population and claim the land for Britain.

However, it is also ironic that with the proposal of the Union of Britain and Ireland (Ireland had previously it's own parliament ruled by the Protestant Ascendency), it was the Catholics who were generally more in favour of the Union (hoping that they would be given the same rights as Catholics in Britain) while the northern Presbyterians were against it as they wished to safeguard their own rights and privilges.

In the 18th Century, these northern Presbyterians (who also suffered under British rule due to their status as "recusants" and non-conformists) made the first steps towards Irish Republicanism. Their Society of United Irishmen made an alliance with the Gaelic Catholic agrarian protection society known as The Defenders. They advocated a coming together of Catholics and Protestants in a fight for independance from the British.

Faced with a rebellion (backed by France), the British promoted the formation of the Orange Society which was a sectarian organisation dedicated to the memory of the victory of the usurper William of Orange against King James II and the Catholic Irish.
A report (which I will have access to once Skadi is back up) states that within a short period of time, the Protestant members of the United Irishmen had left and become members of the Orange Society which the author gleefully commented was all the better as it was occuring most rapidly in Belfast (traditionally a hotbed of Anti-British forment)

Unfortunately, this policy of sectarianism to quell a joint rebellion against Britain has had lasting implications to this day

I was chatting with an Irish nationalist in M.I.R.C.

What is M.I.R.C.?

and he claimed that actually there was/is no civil war in Ireland.

Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are two different entities.


According to him "Irish" Protestants are actually of Schotish(mainly) and English ancestry,just as Catholic "Schotish" are actually Irish that migrated to Schotland a few centuries ago.According to him all Irish are Catholics and all English and Schotish are Protestants.
Is there any truth in these claims?

Breandán Ó Buachalla - "There existed in Ulster several population groups, apart from many individuals scattered here and there, partly of Irish and partly of Scottish origin, who were Irish in language and who belonged to one or other of the two Protestant churches."

Estyn Evans - "There was much more intermarriage, with or without the benefit of the clergy, than the conventional histories make allowance for. Many planters became Catholics and many natives became Protestants. It is an emotional oversimplification to see the plantation in terms of ruthless Protestants seizing the best stretches of land and cashing the Catholics into the bogs and hills."

The Heath Money Rolls for the Presbyterian parishes of Stranorlar and Leck in Donegal in 1665 record families such as:
Rooney, Lowry, Macartan, Maguinness...
Episcopalian Diocese of Dromore in South West Down record:
Murphy, Maguire, Kelly, Lennon, Reilly, Doherty...
Presbyterian Church of Saintfeild records:
Dugan, Donnan, Hanvey, Kelly...

Ironically, Gerry Adams is most likely a descendant of the MacAdam clann who were of Scottish origin.

As for the Catholic Scottish, there are native Scots who survived the Reformation untouched (mainly in the Highlands and Western Isles), but the numbers of Catholics certainly increased many times over by the influx of Irish during the late 18th & 19th century into Scotland.

Billy Connolly, Sean Connery...

It's very ironic, if one remembers the Dal Riada.

"In the event, therefore, the fate of Pictland was decided less by invading armies than by the spread of culture, and especially by the particular circumstances of Christianization. The adoption of the Christian religeon in its Irish form went hand in hand with the adoption of the Gaelic language and of Gaelic customs."-Norman Davies

The Scots have more English and Viking blood in them than Irish.

Billy Connolly, Sean Connery...

I'm not clear on what your intention is with these names?

Billy Connolly is a Catholic of Irish heritage.
Sean Connery is a Protestant, I believe it is not the original name of this gentleman either ;)

"In the event, therefore, the fate of Pictland was decided less by invading armies than by the spread of culture, and especially by the particular circumstances of Christianization. The adoption of the Christian religeon in its Irish form went hand in hand with the adoption of the Gaelic language and of Gaelic customs."-Norman Davies

The Scots have more English and Viking blood in them than Irish.

I'm not sure I agree with that.
Anglo-Saxon influence tends to predominate in South-East Scotland.
Viking in the North-East and among the west coast to a lesser extent.

I see the argument for culture spreading without genetic input quite a bit.
The same argument is made for the Angl-Saxons, that somehow they hardly made a dent on the population of England but merely their culture travelled while it is inferred most of them stayed at home.
I find this unlikely.

We know that Scots travelled and settle in Argyll and Scottish Dalriada.
The typical Scottish name is Gaelic and so can we not suppose that they interbred with most of the population (pred. Picts to the north and Britons to the South)?

In a sense.
Dal Riada was an Irish kingdom which sent colonists to Alba (the former name from Scotland). These Irish colonists were known as "Scots".
The Convention of Druim Ceatt (in which St Columba was present) eventually made Scottish Dal Riada an independent kingdom from the rest of the kingdom across the Irish sea.

We'll keep you;)

Of course by the time of the Reformation, much of Scotland, particularly the lowlands, had converted to Protestantism (princpally Presbyterianism), while a significant amount of the Highlands and Western Isles remained Catholic.
The English saw the planatation of Protestant Scots to Ireland as an ideal way to put a wedge in the Irish population and claim the land for Britain.

They also sent a whole load of the Boarder Revears(sp?).

In the 18th Century, these northern Presbyterians (who also suffered under British rule due to their status as "recusants" and non-conformists) made the first steps towards Irish Republicanism. Their Society of United Irishmen made an alliance with the Gaelic Catholic agrarian protection society known as The Defenders. They advocated a coming together of Catholics and Protestants in a fight for independance from the British.

Thanks for backing me up, I mentioned this in the Thread on Northern Ireland.

Thanks for the vote of confidence :)

I'm not sure what you mean by Boarder Reavers. Can you elaborate?

I'm not clear on what your intention is with these names?

Billy Connolly is a Catholic of Irish heritage.
Sean Connery is a Protestant, I believe it is not the original name of this gentleman either ;)

My intention was to back up your assertions about Irish Catholics in Scotland..

I'm not sure I agree with that.
Anglo-Saxon influence tends to predominate in South-East Scotland.
Viking in the North-East and among the west coast to a lesser extent.

I see the argument for culture spreading without genetic input quite a bit.
The same argument is made for the Angl-Saxons, that somehow they hardly made a dent on the population of England but merely their culture travelled while it is inferred most of them stayed at home.
I find this unlikely.

We know that Scots travelled and settle in Argyll and Scottish Dalriada.
The typical Scottish name is Gaelic and so can we not suppose that they interbred with most of the population (pred. Picts to the north and Britons to the South)?

The Irish influence is very small(genetically)...the evidence is there to back it up though(I'll get back to this one).

My intention was to back up your assertions about Irish Catholics in Scotland..

Ah, I see :)
Well, Sean Connery is an easy mistake to make. Obviously he thought having an Irish name would be more glamorous ;)

Thanks for the vote of confidence :)

I'm not sure what you mean by Boarder Reavers. Can you elaborate?

Praise where praise is due.

Boarder Reveres were thugs who mugged people on the border between England and Scotland.

Ah, I see :)
Well, Sean Connery is an easy mistake to make. Obviously he thought having an Irish name would be more glamorous ;)

Actually, I just checked.
His real name is Thomas Sean Connery. Not exactly Jock McTavish, is it :)

Praise where praise is due.

Boarder Reveres were thugs who mugged people on the border between England and Scotland.

Ah, that is something I was unaware of. Thanks for the info.

Yes, that is largely correct.
Unfortunately I don't have time to go through the whole history over the various centuries but the Unionist/Loyalist community are almost entirely descended from English and Scottish "Planters" whom the British sent over to colonise the land confiscated from the native Catholic Irish.
The Nationalist Community is that which descends mainly from the dispossessed Irish.

As for the Catholic Scottish, there are native Scots who survived the Reformation untouched (mainly in the Highlands and Western Isles), but the numbers of Catholics certainly increased many times over by the influx of Irish during the late 18th & 19th century into Scotland.
Quite impressive.I thought he was just spreading some I.R.A propaganda.So,this explains a lot of the situation in Ireland